Episode 98: Inside the Mind of a 3x Billion-Dollar Boutique Founder: Tucker Walsh on Growth, Grit, and Getting Funded

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Stacy’s had a front row seat to a lot of boutique success stories but this one is something special. Tucker Walsh didn’t just build one billion-dollar firm, he did it again. And now? He’s back at it for a third time.

In this Episode, Tucker and Stacy talk about what it really takes to build an investment firm from the ground up. 

They also discuss: 

• The realities of raising capital in today’s market

• Why allocator behavior is shifting and what that means for boutiques

• Lessons learned from decades of small-cap investing

• How to grow your firm one small allocation at a time (and why the “unscalable” stuff matters most in the beginning)

About Tucker Walsh:

Tucker is the Founder and CIO of Arrowside Capital, a high-conviction investment firm focused on the best emerging SMID growth companies in public markets.

With over 30 years of experience in growth equity, spanning roles at Polen Capital, Copper Rock Capital, and now Arrowside, Tucker is known for his deep research, sharp macro perspective, and unapologetically long-term approach.

He also writes Zen Investment Briefs and hosts a podcast on value creation, market psychology, and how investors can thrive in a world of rapid change.

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TRANSCRIPT

Below is an AI-generated transcript and therefore it may contain errors. 

[00:00:00] Tucker Walsh: The choice was really, do you go with the folks that are the largest because they have the biggest pool of money, or do you fly all over the country and take a chance that you're gonna catch a few here? A few There we went with the ladder strategy and that was the right strategy.

[00:00:17] Stacy Havener: Hey, my name is Stacy Havener.

[00:00:19] Stacy Havener: I'm obsessed with startups, stories, and sales. Storytelling has fueled my success as a female founder in the Toughest Boys Club, wall Street. I've raised over 8 billion that has led to 30 billion in follow-on assets for investment boutiques, you could say against the odds. Yeah, understatement. I share stories of the people behind the portfolios while teaching you how to use story to shape outcomes.

[00:00:47] Stacy Havener: It's real talk here, money, authenticity, growth, setbacks, sales and marketing are all topics we discuss. Think of this as the capital raising class you wish you had in college mixed [00:01:00] with happy hour. Pull up a seat, grab your notebook, and get ready to be inspired and challenged while you learn. This is the Billion Dollar Backstory Podcast.

[00:01:15] Stacy Havener: Building a billion dollar investment boutique is no easy feat. How about doing it not once but twice, and hanging a shingle a third time? Also why

[00:01:29] Stacy Havener: said with peace and love fund manager, entrepreneur, and boutique founder, Tucker Walsh joins us today to unpack his journey as a small cap specialist at firms like State Street Research, copper Rock, and Poland Capital. We not only talk about building and investing, but about what's happening in the markets.

[00:01:49] Stacy Havener: With allocators and how that impacts the future of boutiques. This is a special conversation with a client and friend. Without further ado, [00:02:00] meet Tucker. Tucker, thank you so much for being here. This is a real joy for me because you are friend and a client and I know your story. I know how fantastic it is, and I know that our listeners are going to learn so much from this conversation today.

[00:02:17] Stacy Havener: So thank you for being here.

[00:02:19] Tucker Walsh: Thanks for having me on, Stacy. It's great to be here.

[00:02:22] Stacy Havener: All right, so we're gonna start with story. I. And I'm gonna encourage people to get the popcorn and the cup of tea or beverage of choice. We, we don't judge on billion dollar backstory because this is a great one. This is a really great entrepreneurial breakaway story.

[00:02:41] Stacy Havener: And to kick it off, Tucker, I'm gonna have you go as far back as you want. Like did you always envision that you'd be sitting here as an investment fund manager, founder of a boutique? Like was that your life's dream? I

[00:02:54] Tucker Walsh: don't know if it was my life stream, but I stumbled into the investment business. I was [00:03:00] doing a internship at a brokerage fund in New York City.

[00:03:03] Tucker Walsh: I'd grew up right outside of New York City in the tiny town, Bronxville, New York.

[00:03:08] Stacy Havener: Oh yeah.

[00:03:09] Tucker Walsh: And I commuted in, in the summer and worked at F Stocking Company, which, you know, some, you know, experienced people in the business might recognize that name. I think it's now part of Oppenheimer. Anyway, I had the good fortune of having a summer internship where I worked for about six weeks, but a week in each different department.

[00:03:28] Okay. And

[00:03:29] Tucker Walsh: I had gone through sales and trading and syndicate, and I was very discouraged actually. 'cause I didn't think that anything really fit, even though I thought, Hey, this, you know, this Wall Street thing might be for me. And then I did a week with the research group and I couldn't believe it. I couldn't believe that.

[00:03:50] Tucker Walsh: They paid people to research companies and make predictions about the future. That's, I found that to be just amazing. So it [00:04:00] was my sole focus when I got outta college, even though it was sort of on the tail end of that recession that came after the 87 market crash and I, I landed at Cowan and Company on a investment research team, and it was doing PC hardware and software.

[00:04:16] Tucker Walsh: So again, another sort of piece of good fortune. Because it was right as the PC industry was really nascent and on its way up. And I'm going as far back as you know, Microsoft was 8 billion market cap at the time. Oh

[00:04:32] my God.

[00:04:34] Tucker Walsh: So it's going back ways, but it was a fascinating time and predictions from, you know, bill Gates, that there was gonna be a computer on everyone's desktop seemed outlandish at the time.

[00:04:45] Tucker Walsh: Yeah. Have we come a long way?

[00:04:47] Stacy Havener: Yeah.

[00:04:48] Tucker Walsh: It was great for me because what I was really attracted to is, is looking at where is the world going rather than taking a lot of statistical data and trying to find sort of trading [00:05:00] anomalies or arbitrage anomalies. So it was a really good fit for me and that's really, that's where it all began.

[00:05:06] Stacy Havener: Fascinating. And of course like all the threads make sense when you look backwards, don't they? But like on a go forward basis, you're like, I'm not sure how this is all gonna come together. So where did you land next? Like, 'cause at some point you transitioned from just researcher to actually more of the fund management side.

[00:05:25] Tucker Walsh: Yes. I made my way, that group moved to Merrill. Mm-hmm. And then I went from Merrill back to Karen's asset management group. Then I came up here to Boston, where I live now in 1997 to work at State Street Research, which was the original manager of the Harvard Endowment and was owned by MetLife. And I worked as an analyst, a generalist on that team after having worked as mostly a technology analyst over the prior course of my career.

[00:05:55] Tucker Walsh: And then the lead manager left and I took over as lead manager in [00:06:00] 1999. Which of course was also, you know, quite an interesting period that was right as the.com bubble was forming. And I luckily had spent a pretty decent amount of time on industries outside of tech. I had transitioned to become more of a generalist, and I also had a real, um, you know, just a, a, a foundation of looking for companies that had cash flow or were like right on the verge.

[00:06:29] Tucker Walsh: Generating cash flow. So I avoided a lot of the carnage that came from that in my first stint as a portfolio manager. But it certainly wasn't an easy period to sort of learn how to, uh, to navigate how to, how to navigate the, uh, markets.

[00:06:43] Stacy Havener: So what was the strategy like? What was the mandate of that strategy that you were running then?

[00:06:48] Stacy Havener: That

[00:06:48] Tucker Walsh: was a small cap growth strategy. Okay. And it. Had roughly 75 holdings.

[00:06:56] Okay.

[00:06:57] Tucker Walsh: And that actually at the time [00:07:00] was maybe middle of the road or a little bit more concentrated than many. There were a lot of strategies back then. That's right.

[00:07:06] Stacy Havener: Pre-con conviction strategies, right? Yeah.

[00:07:08] Tucker Walsh: Yes.

[00:07:09] Stacy Havener: Okay. So you're running that and assets.

[00:07:12] Stacy Havener: I mean, look, state Street research for those of us who've been around the block can remember very, very well known for being a very talented, uh, investment shop. So you're there, you're running small cap growth assets are peaking at, where are they peaking at?

[00:07:30] Tucker Walsh: Well, when I took over the strategy, it was about 230 million.

[00:07:35] Tucker Walsh: So it was actually a sort of a smaller strategy. Okay. In the grand scheme of things there. And we had what I viewed as way too many Hollings. We had about 125 Hollings, but also a very strangely top heavy, and then. Lack of conviction, tail strategy with 150 securities. And of course you can't, there's no way that two people can stay on top of 150 companies [00:08:00] properly.

[00:08:01] Tucker Walsh: But also you could let a lot go if you don't have a very large physician. So you're, yeah. You know, so it just didn't make sense to me. So I tightened it up to about that level, which I felt like was about the right number of holdings, and the track record was built and we were able to. Uh, gather. We actually, at the time when we, when State Street research got bought by BlackRock mm-hmm.

[00:08:23] Tucker Walsh: In 2000 and, uh, four, when it was announced in 2004, we had topped out at about, um, 3.6 billion. So from 200, yeah. Incredible,

[00:08:33] Stacy Havener: incredible build. And this is a great segue to the next chapter here. Here you are running this very successful strategy at State Street Research and now here comes BlackRock. Yes.

[00:08:47] Stacy Havener: And, and a moment right. For you to make some decisions.

[00:08:53] Tucker Walsh: Yes. And you know, BlackRock was, um, made it pretty clear that they were pretty skeptical about active [00:09:00] management, just in general. That it was sort of a, you know, a view of theirs. And I, I really. Wanted to work at a place where I could have a meaningful difference.

[00:09:13] Tucker Walsh: I didn't know that that could be BlackRock, even though it's a fine organization.

[00:09:17] Stacy Havener: Sure.

[00:09:18] Tucker Walsh: And yeah, so I banded together with a few of my colleagues at State Street Research and we started our own firm and used the, all of the contacts that we had in the institutional community. One of the things that we did.

[00:09:32] Tucker Walsh: At State Street Research in the latter days, there was, you know, really build good connections with some of the bigger, uh, players in the institution consulting world, Rocaton, Cambridge, et cetera, and Wyatt. And then we also had a good relationship with Northern Trust, which turned out to be important for us when we, um, will bring her to copper on.

[00:09:55] Stacy Havener: So you found Copper Rock. Now you're an entrepreneur. Welcome to that. [00:10:00]Welcome to that amazing and also terrifying journey. Um, and I'm curious, was anyone else in your family an entrepreneur?

[00:10:09] Tucker Walsh: No. No, no. First time, yes. F first time entrepreneur in my family.

[00:10:14] Stacy Havener: Wow. Okay. So you're like, we're doing this.

[00:10:17] Tucker Walsh: We're doing it.

[00:10:18] Stacy Havener: And if you know Copper Rock, you'll know where we're headed with this story. How does it go?

[00:10:24] Tucker Walsh: Well. We did really well out of the gates in terms of investment returns, which is right. Always important. And we also had a strategy to go out to as many institutional consultants as would take meetings with us.

[00:10:40] Mm-hmm.

[00:10:41] Tucker Walsh: 2, 2, 3 times over. And our feeling was we had no idea who was gonna have need at what time, you know, so you could, the choice was really, do you. Go with the big, the folks that are the largest because they have the biggest pool of money. Or do you fly all over the country [00:11:00] and take a chance that you're gonna catch a few here?

[00:11:03] Tucker Walsh: A few There we went with the latter strategy. Yep. And that was the right strategy because we not only, I. It sort of caught the wave of allocator interest in boutique managers at that time. That was actually a very strong pull.

[00:11:17] Stacy Havener: It sure was. Yeah.

[00:11:18] Tucker Walsh: Uh, at that time. And in addition to that, um, we also caught a little bit of good luck that a couple managers really stumbled, and there was one manager in particular where I think there were 2 billion in a UM and they went into almost a free fall, and we picked up about a billion dollars of their client assets.

[00:11:38] Tucker Walsh: In, in a little under three years time, we went from 2 million of seed money to a little over 3 billion in a UM.

[00:11:46] Stacy Havener: Wow. That's a rocket ship. I love a couple things here that I wanna put a pin in for people who are listening. One is the founder led sales component, because I think we [00:12:00] hear that phrase in tech, in SaaS, in Silicon Valley.

[00:12:06] Stacy Havener: But then somehow when we get into the investment world, it evaporates. And typically because the founder is a fund manager, oftentimes from a very large firm, they're like, no, no, no. My job is to sit behind my Bloomberg and do the thing right, and practice my craft. But you knew instinctually, perhaps, or just because you're a first time entrepreneur and you're like, oh no, this is working.

[00:12:30] Stacy Havener: I'm gonna get on a plane and I'm gonna meet these people face to face. I think that was a huge move right there. Do you agree that like you being on a plane mattered?

[00:12:43] Tucker Walsh: Oh yeah, absolutely. I think it made a huge difference. I mean, there's, there's really two things I think that larger allocators really wanna know.

[00:12:52] Tucker Walsh: They wanna know how you have structured your firm and. That they are gonna be safe. [00:13:00]

[00:13:00] Yeah.

[00:13:00] Tucker Walsh: Giving you money, right? Because handing over money is different than handing over money for a product that you get once Yeah. Handing over your money, you could lose money on it. Right? Which is different than just that contract is a consumer with all other goods, which is, I just give you money, you give me product, it's a one time thing.

[00:13:19] Tucker Walsh: Or if you have a service, you're gonna be getting something out of it, but you, you really won't lose. Principle with it.

[00:13:24] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:13:25] Tucker Walsh: So it's a big difference, I think. Great point. And so I think they really wanna know that you're being thoughtful about how you're creating your organization. That you have their own incentives in place, that you're like intelligent and that you can run a company.

[00:13:40] Tucker Walsh: Right. That's right. And a good person, right? Yeah. Of high character. And then second, they wanna be able to get the impression, understand whether or not you can think differently.

[00:13:52] Yeah.

[00:13:53] Tucker Walsh: Because there's really no reason to invest in an active strategy unless [00:14:00] the manager has a differentiated view. And there's so many strategies out there now.

[00:14:04] Tucker Walsh: It's very noisy, and I think that can only come through in sitting with someone.

[00:14:10] Yeah.

[00:14:10] Tucker Walsh: And having a conversation and allowing some of those differentiated thoughts to come out as they ask questions.

[00:14:17] Stacy Havener: Yeah. Agreed, everybody, please put that in your notebook if you have the notebook candy, uh, per suggestion at start of podcast.

[00:14:26] Stacy Havener: Um, the second thing I wanna put a pin in here is it sounds like luck and some of it is 'cause let's be honest, there's an element of luck in everything we do. But this idea that, you know, there are moments in time where you get a tailwind. You described one for you, a catalyst of sorts that really kind of was the rocket fuel on something that most likely would've been successful no matter what, and you have to be ready to turn that luck into [00:15:00] real opportunity, which you did because you had laid the groundwork in advance.

[00:15:06] Stacy Havener: You had the infrastructure in place so that when this stumble happened with one of your peers. You were ready to step into that money in motion and that's, it sounds lucky, but I want everyone to understand the amount of preparation and build that has to happen for you to be able to do what you did.

[00:15:27] Tucker Walsh: Yeah, I think that's a, that's a really great point and I think a lot of it comes down to the infrastructure you have around you.

[00:15:34] Stacy Havener: Yeah.

[00:15:35] Tucker Walsh: And um, we made the choice when building Copper Rock, I. I was sort of presented with the choice of either working with a private equity partner that would give, just give us capital.

[00:15:48] Mm-hmm.

[00:15:49] Tucker Walsh: And then it would, you know, sort of depended on the firm, but like we would have to return some of it, or they would keep their equity and get X amount in return. Oh yeah. And get chartered. Right. [00:16:00]Or we were presented the opportunity to work with Old Mutual Asset Management, which was the old UAM business that was run by Mar Marine up here in Boston.

[00:16:09] Tucker Walsh: They sold that to Old Mutual, the South African Insurance Company, and that group was led by Scott Powers at the time, old Mutual Asset Management, and he had built infrastructure that could help managers get, you know, just help them increase their business. So I just felt like, you know, I was reason pretty young at the time and didn't have any experience running a boutique.

[00:16:35] Tucker Walsh: I felt like that was a much better way to go and it turned out to be a good decision in order to allow us to scale. And it's better to share and have good infrastructure around you and build a great team than it is to feel like, oh, I'm gonna build a, you know, billion, two, billion dollars operation myself, maybe one or two other people.

[00:16:56] Tucker Walsh: You know, it, it doesn't just take care of itself. You have to have a good, you have to [00:17:00] have a good team around you.

[00:17:01] Stacy Havener: A hundred percent agree with that. I wanna come back to seating at the end if we have time. 'cause this is something that's actually coming back around in a really interesting way. But I wanna continue the story.

[00:17:12] Stacy Havener: So you've built quickly a pretty sizable, substantial investment boutique, still small cap, and so. What happens next? Because I know there's a couple different stops on this entrepreneurial journey.

[00:17:27] Tucker Walsh: Yeah, so we, we built small cap and we also launched a, a smid strategy as well. Okay? Mm-hmm. During the financial crisis, we had lifted a team out of Putnam that was doing international small cap, and so, you know, things went well for the firm.

[00:17:46] Tucker Walsh: Yeah. And we, uh, you know, built a nice business. Then, you know, a lot of our clients were not with us for a very long period before the financial crisis. And also they had [00:18:00] some issues with needing to rebalance the pensions after that. So, you know, there was a little digestion, but it still was fine. And we went through a period where we didn't grow quite as much as I would've liked.

[00:18:13] Mm-hmm.

[00:18:13] Tucker Walsh: And, uh, old Mutual was making some changes. They were trying to go public. And it just made sense with a different team there and, and a lot of the things that go with having multiple teams, it made sense for me to sort of transition outta the business and sell my equity, have them work on their own, and then I could go find my next thing to start, which I did end up doing.

[00:18:37] Stacy Havener: Which was what?

[00:18:38] Tucker Walsh: Well, that was with Poland Capital. Okay. A lot of people recognize the name probably from their large cap growth strategy, concentrated high quality. I had sort of taken our small cap and smid strategy more toward a concentrated place, but it was really in conflict with how we had our current clients.

[00:18:57] Tucker Walsh: And so it made sense [00:19:00] to sort of transition out, look for that next thing. And then Poland was a really good fit for what I was doing at that time, and, um, launched that, uh, set of strategies in 2017. Worked out of a temporary office, then launched their Boston office and we had a very successful run there as well.

[00:19:19] Tucker Walsh: Building that from essentially, uh, you know, a little bit of seed money up to with, with three strategies, a little under a billion in a u m's. Great. At the end of 2021.

[00:19:30] Stacy Havener: It's amazing. Still small cap. You, you're more concentrated now. So at this point your holdings are what, in the thirties, forties? Like have you hald it again?

[00:19:40] Tucker Walsh: Yeah. Down to 30 or 30 or 35 holdings.

[00:19:43] Stacy Havener: Okay, so now here we sit in the sort of third iteration on the, um, Tucker Walsh entrepreneurial journey. So why, why this? Why aero side? [00:20:00] So you're at Poland, you've taken it down in the concentration, but there must have been some catalyst that said, Nope, there's something I need to do differently here.

[00:20:09] Tucker Walsh: Yeah. What I had really come to appreciate is that there were a bunch of shifts in the economy and the markets

[00:20:15] mm-hmm.

[00:20:15] Tucker Walsh: That were presenting problems for market cap constrained products. So if we talk about like, there was a very good reason to have style boxes for allocators of investing when it was created in the early 1990s.

[00:20:31] Tucker Walsh: It still plays an important role in terms of, you know, having exposure to different parts of the market so that there's some level of diversification where you take the risk, where you don't, et cetera. Um, what I noticed though was that a many less companies going public, when you think about the amount of companies mm-hmm.

[00:20:51] Tucker Walsh: That are public companies in the US it shrunk from like 7,200 to about 3,500. The amount of IPOs per [00:21:00] year has been in poultry. A lot of companies are staying private for longer, and so this, the amount of companies you can choose from being less, that of course has to come at the expense of smaller cap.

[00:21:13] Tucker Walsh: Mm-hmm. But a lot of people had not shifted their views in terms of what a traditional, like a small cap or a smid is. They haven't updated their views. We have companies that are trillion dollar companies, but yet. If I have a conversation with someone, they would ask, oh, small cap. That's, that's under, under a billion.

[00:21:31] Tucker Walsh: Right? And, and so, you know, if, if the largest companies are up five or 10 fold. So I, I saw that as a bit of an existential threat to my ability to add value. And not only good relative returns, but good absolute returns. And I had the epiphany that. I was finding companies I was really convicted in and that I felt like [00:22:00]had great business models and that I would want to own for as long as I could.

[00:22:06] Tucker Walsh: Many years. Yeah. But I had to sell them because of market cap constraints. And so I consider what's going on in traditional small cap to be a supply crisis. Um, we talked about that at your summit.

[00:22:19] Mm-hmm.

[00:22:20] Tucker Walsh: And there's just not enough good companies, so. Selling my favorite ideas that I would wanna own for years to go have to replace it with something that's not nearly as good.

[00:22:32] Tucker Walsh: That can't be good for the client. No. And it wouldn't be good for me and my ability to create a record that would be attractive for clients to want to allocate to work. So I, I had that epiphany and thought I wanna do what I've been doing my whole career, but I want to take the constraints off that are keeping.

[00:22:54] Tucker Walsh: The returns from being what the potential returns can be, what people expect out of the category. If you're gonna [00:23:00] take the risk, you should get the return because the volatility's higher with smaller and mid cap companies, and so you still run a SMID strategy. But a lot of those market caps, those artificial market cap constraints are off.

[00:23:13] Tucker Walsh: And I feel like the returns that we've had so far are a really good proof statement for. Rethinking this and trying to deliver that value.

[00:23:24] Stacy Havener: So interesting. And so basically that existential crisis has actually led to sort of an embedded differentiator at Aero side in some ways, hasn't it? Because you're sort of saying, look, I love what you said, I, I'm doing what I've always done.

[00:23:40] Stacy Havener: I'm just sort of taking the shackles off. Why do I have to sell a name that I love? Because it's doing great. Like it just makes a lot of intellectual common sense. But we're to your point, the whole industry is like, oh, but you just went outside the style box. Get back in the [00:24:00] box Tucker.

[00:24:02] Tucker Walsh: Yeah.

[00:24:02] Stacy Havener: And you don't wanna play that game.

[00:24:05] Tucker Walsh: Right. And I would also add though, and as I've spoken with allocators, you know, through the lens of aero side.

[00:24:13] Yeah.

[00:24:14] Tucker Walsh: One of the things that I have gotten feedback on, and it, it was a sort of a hunch of mine, but I have gotten a lot of, you know, nods and reinforcement on is that with that categorization in style boxes and having very firm market cap restrictions.

[00:24:30] Tucker Walsh: There's like an air pocket of amazing growth companies that are not owned because you would assume that, oh, well the small cap manager would hand that off to the SMID manager or the mid cap manager who will hand it off to the large cap manager, and then they look at my top 10 or 15 and they're like, yeah, none of the managers I have own these securities.

[00:24:53] Tucker Walsh: So in a way it's sort of forging a new way of looking at this.

[00:24:58] Yeah.

[00:24:59] Tucker Walsh: And [00:25:00] I think the more that I've gone along in it, the more that I feel, you know, increasingly convicted that this is, it's the way to get that level of exposure to those emerging growth companies and also just say, Hey, you know, the world's sort of changed winner take most this can participate in winner take most.

[00:25:18] Tucker Walsh: Because if you catch something it. 5 billion and it goes to 50 billion. That's a really good thing, but that might not be owned in a strategy because of that handoff and those restrictions.

[00:25:30] Stacy Havener: That's really interesting. The air pocket analogy is so spot on. The style box is so just. What I'm hearing you say is, in a way the style boxes have created these sort of orphaned companies that don't fit neatly into the boundaries that have been arbitrarily decided in some ways.

[00:25:50] Tucker Walsh: Yes, and I think that there's a lot of sensitivity in the way that the style boxes do play an important role.

[00:25:58] Yeah, but they

[00:25:58] Tucker Walsh: haven't been updated. [00:26:00] And not only have they not been updated, sort of the views on what fits where hasn't really been updated, but there's a real important area of the economy and markets that can add a lot of economic value and can add a lot of investment return that's just not owned if you're too rigid about the segmentation.

[00:26:19] Tucker Walsh: So we feel like, you know, for those that are willing to rethink it. I think is gonna be an important part of adding value in the non large cap non index. You know, where active management actually can have an important role. It's in those companies that are growing and profitable, and 7 billion in market cap on their way to 70.

[00:26:44] Stacy Havener: Are you an investment boutique looking to grow your business and need a little help? If you feel like you're fighting for the spotlight and well still stuck in the shadows of the bigs, join us in the Boutique Investment, collective Haven's new membership community dedicated to the specialist in the investment industry.[00:27:00]

[00:27:00] Stacy Havener: In the collective, we'll guide you through the billion dollar blueprint we've used to help boutiques add over $30 billion. In a UM, you'll refine your story, focus on your ideal target market, and practice your pitch. You'll rethink your marketing materials, rewrite your emails, and refresh your differentiators.

[00:27:18] Stacy Havener: We'll even help you step up your LinkedIn game and give your profile a makeover. You wanna grow your biz, we've got your back. Learn more about the collective, the curriculum, and the amazing coaches who will help you on your journey. Visit Haven or capital.com/collective high five. Hope to see you in a coaching session soon.

[00:27:43] Stacy Havener: Amazing. Okay, so we've actually talked about differentiators a little bit. I wanna come back to that topic because you say something I love about a specialist strategy, and you have the background and the pedigree to sort of [00:28:00] have lived this. But I'm hoping you can talk, where does a specialist strategy fit best?

[00:28:05] Stacy Havener: Because this is a, I mean, this is rare bird type investing here. If you're, if you're running a specialist strategy. It's not for everybody, and maybe what I'm teeing up for you is maybe it doesn't belong in every type of company.

[00:28:18] Tucker Walsh: Yeah. I would say first and foremost, because of my background and my bias and the fact that I feel really strongly that there are a lot of really great small and mid-sized companies that can add a lot of economic value.

[00:28:32] Tucker Walsh: I think right now we're at, you know, 95% of all of our holdings are in small and mid cap, right? Within the. What those market cap considerations would be. It's just that we're not selling. When something goes from small mid cap, we don't sell it.

[00:28:49] Stacy Havener: Yeah, that's great. And so

[00:28:51] Tucker Walsh: really, you know, we have talked about it as a smid strategy.

[00:28:56] Tucker Walsh: Instead of calling it small to mid, we're really calling it small and [00:29:00] mid. And I think that the nuance is that the upper bound of small cap, those companies, there's so many of them that are just incredible opportunities to compound a lot of return. Those are getting left behind, as I mentioned before.

[00:29:15] Yeah.

[00:29:15] Tucker Walsh: So really can fit with those that are looking for exposure in that small mid category.

[00:29:21] Got it.

[00:29:21] Tucker Walsh: Um, that like emerging growth and so from a, you know, catch them early perspective. I would mention that the way that I've continued to stay disciplined in order to reduce some of the, I guess you'd call it, you know, individual security risk is just owning companies.

[00:29:40] Tucker Walsh: Yeah. That have their cash generators, robust margins and high returns on capital, especially high cash flow returns on invested capital, which really just shows that they're, they're good investors. Just like, you know, we aspire to be too.

[00:29:53] Stacy Havener: Yeah, so that's fascinating. So that's role in the portfolio. I wanna take the other side of this coin a little [00:30:00] bit because that was a great deep dive on role in an allocator's portfolio.

[00:30:04] Stacy Havener: I wanna talk about a specialist strategy in the role of a larger asset management organization. So kind of going back to something that you say often, which is specialist strategies don't always fit within a company.

[00:30:21] Tucker Walsh: I've worked at larger companies in the asset management industry. Well mentioned, worked at Merrill Lynch, so I worked at that kinda large company and have experience there.

[00:30:30] Tucker Walsh: I truly believe that differentiated investment strategies should not be run as a company. You know, and I'm putting it in air quotes.

[00:30:41] Stacy Havener: Yeah, we're using air quotes. No one can see

[00:30:43] Tucker Walsh: and, and so, and the reason is. What makes a company really successful is for people to be thinking similarly and to be acting similarly, and to be promoting the brand similarly.

[00:30:59] Tucker Walsh: And [00:31:00] that's a really good thing.

[00:31:01] Stacy Havener: Like the firm Meaning? Meaning like the asset management, the firm, like the party line type of thinking. Yeah, that's right. Okay. Tracking.

[00:31:09] Tucker Walsh: That's what we do, right? Yeah, we, yep. But I. Feel strongly that a great investment strategy

[00:31:18] mm-hmm. Is

[00:31:19] Tucker Walsh: one that thinks very independently.

[00:31:23] Mm.

[00:31:23] Tucker Walsh: And that has a view that is different than the market view. If it's the same as the market view, you shouldn't be paying for active management. What's

[00:31:32] Stacy Havener: the point?

[00:31:33] Tucker Walsh: Exactly. So you know, if you are just regurgitating the news and you know this is what's going on in the world, or that's what's going on in the world and that's your commentary, then really the allocators should just be using an index strategy instead of an active strategy.

[00:31:50] Tucker Walsh: So I think that those actually end up conflicting in that if you want to think differently or act differently or go in a different direction, if you, I mean, I hold [00:32:00] my views. Tightly, but we'll change them if the facts change and if I need to be flexible in an area that I wanna go to, just like, you know, yeah, I wanna hold this company for a long time.

[00:32:13] Tucker Walsh: And that might not fit with sort of what the company is trying to do at a broader level, where it's like, well, we have this, we have this, we have this. Yeah, you just stay in your group, do a really good job. But I think also part of the problem, going back to that, you know, the issue that I, I saw too. We haven't really covered this yet, is that, you know, the other thing that I feel strongly about is that the average company that you're investing in now is worse than the average company 15 years ago.

[00:32:42] Stacy Havener: It's not funny, but I don't know why that one always, it just, what the heck? It's sad. Why? Well,

[00:32:49] Tucker Walsh: the internet changed everything. The, okay. The internet is the economic operating system now. It is the medium of exchange of marketing, medium of exchange of sales. It's [00:33:00] the medium of exchange of information, knowledge, the supply chain, the financial system.

[00:33:07] Tucker Walsh: And as such, competition is, you know, multiples higher because everyone can be a global business basically overnight. They can get into other areas. When you think about what has made the magnificent seven so magnificent. It's that they've continued to reinvest a lot of their cash flow into other areas that companies wouldn't have done before.

[00:33:29] Tucker Walsh: We had this sort of broad ability to capture economic value in other areas that the internet provides, but it also makes it harder for average companies to have the level of profitability that they had before the internet. Was this 'cause right? Opacity is. You know, it's the easiest way to get margin. If people don't know whether there's competition that they can have for cheaper for the exact same product, you're still fine.

[00:33:59] Tucker Walsh: You're [00:34:00] still able to charge that premium. So that has largely gone away, and it has, I believe it explains a lot about why some categories, some asset classes have lagged for as long as they have, because it's very hard for companies to break out of that. So I think that also is, you know, when you think about like larger asset management conglomerates, you know, the managers are, they're all really smart people and they're working hard and they're doing their process and a lot of people are scratching their heads about why the returns are not what they used to be.

[00:34:39] Tucker Walsh: And I think a lot can be explained due to that. And that's a lot of why we're doing what we're doing. But also, you know, it's hard for boutiques to grow, but at the same time, we feel really convicted that the types of companies that we're invested in. That's also the kind of company we wanna be, which is, you [00:35:00]know, adding value and producing something that's unique to clients.

[00:35:05] Tucker Walsh: Yeah. And 'cause you can get generic all day long, especially with the internet.

[00:35:09] Stacy Havener: I love this point, especially the end right there, because. There's something very cool in the idea that you can get generic and like you shouldn't pay a premium for generic, which also ties in passive active for me, as you earlier stated.

[00:35:26] Stacy Havener: But I also love, this is something I've heard from multiple entrepreneurs, sort of like founder fund managers, which is that becoming an entrepreneur yourself has given you an additional lens as an investor, and do you find that to be true? Like. When you were at State Street Research investing, you certainly were doing a very good job, but now as an entrepreneur, is there another lens that gets added to your research here?

[00:35:55] Tucker Walsh: Oh yeah, absolutely. I think it comes in a couple of forms. I [00:36:00] think the first is having a level of empathy on how hard it is, and when I think about my 25-year-old self. And the research I was doing and the reliance I had on the spreadsheet back then and was looking for a level of precision from a management team, I get a little embarrassed that my 25-year-old self didn't, you know, didn't have that zoom out factor and that feature, I have that appreciation now.

[00:36:31] Tucker Walsh: Uh, a couple of turns over a experience and just seeing multiple different outcomes of companies over a long period of time, but also. Thinking about, geez. Yeah. This is really hard. And not everything goes in a straight line. Yeah. We actually, one of the things that we have posted on our wall in our office is, you know, a chart that's a XY axis.

[00:36:53] Tucker Walsh: And then, you know, the thing that we like to joke about is like you, if you draw just a straight line up into the right, [00:37:00] that's basically what Wall Street expects from a company.

[00:37:03] Stacy Havener: Yeah.

[00:37:03] Tucker Walsh: And you know, of course it doesn't happen that way. So what we have is two lines going that direction, but a spread in between them.

[00:37:14] Stacy Havener: Yeah.

[00:37:14] Tucker Walsh: And so is

[00:37:15] Stacy Havener: one of 'em real wavy, like a roller coaster?

[00:37:18] Tucker Walsh: Well, no. The one that goes in between, between the two is real wavy, like a roller coaster. Right. And that is how it actually works. Yeah. And that's why there can be a lot of volatility with, especially in smaller and mid-sized companies. But an appreciation for the fact that things go up in a channel rather than a straight line.

[00:37:39] Stacy Havener: Ah, is So it's a channel with the waybe line in between. Yes. I gotcha.

[00:37:43] Tucker Walsh: So that, that, I think, and I, I do think that's a differentiator for us in the use of experience in terms of having perspective. I think the other thing too that is a little different in how we look at it is I've been doing growth investing for [00:38:00] so long now that.

[00:38:02] Tucker Walsh: The tolerance for the volatility that goes with investing in growth. You know, the amount of like awe inspiring drops that that happen now. And it's all very highly correlated and we're in a little bit of a different world 'cause there's so much money that's in index funds. And so when money comes out or it comes out all at once.

[00:38:24] Tucker Walsh: And so the individual security differentiation happens over longer periods, and I think that the tolerance for that volatility in order to capture the returns from growth, which is really, I think people need to have growth allocation now because it is separating, the best companies are separating from the rest of the economy.

[00:38:42] Tucker Walsh: And that dynamic going back to the internet, is really not gonna change. So I think that that's another thing that I would point to for us.

[00:38:50] Stacy Havener: It's so great. I wanna actually go back to your 25-year-old self for a second. You didn't realize we were gonna have like a pseudo therapy session, but it's not really that, [00:39:00] but it kind of is because one of the things I find fascinating in our industry, and I say this with so much peace and love because I work with such amazing, smart, talented people, but I also see how hard they've worked.

[00:39:18] Stacy Havener: To be somebody they think they're supposed to be.

[00:39:22] Mm.

[00:39:23] Stacy Havener: And this sort of showing up as who we think our company needs us to be and you know, wearing the uniform that the firm needs you to wear and all of this. And I'm curious how that has been for you, because as you said, you worked at a very big place earlier in your career where I can imagine it was like, here's the mold.

[00:39:45] Stacy Havener: This is what you need to be. Right? Especially in Boston where you've got a whole bunch of other factors at play of like, this is who you are. Um, now to being an entrepreneur like three times over essentially, did you feel like [00:40:00] you were like shedding a layer of, in like, you know, how was that process for you?

[00:40:06] Tucker Walsh: Yeah, it's been, so I think the way that I would put it is that. I think I was afraid to allow myself to be my authentic self.

[00:40:14] Yeah.

[00:40:15] Tucker Walsh: But that I feel much better being that authentic self with prospective clients. And then also I've even taken to publishing, you know? So I read a blog. I read a

[00:40:27] Stacy Havener: blog. Yeah,

[00:40:27] Tucker Walsh: let's talk about that.

[00:40:27] Tucker Walsh: Yeah. And I've found that it forces an amount of clarity on my thinking that I had not been doing. Being a larger firm, and I think that it's great for all investors to be thinking about publishing your thoughts because it might make you go down an extra layer just to make sure that you're sure you've thought this through.

[00:40:48] Tucker Walsh: And I've, I've found that to definitely be the case. I've really enjoyed it. You know, writing's a lot of work, but at the same time, yeah, it's all accretive as we like to say in the business. It's accretive to the process, and I think [00:41:00] that. We're taught to be polished when we first get into this industry.

[00:41:04] Tucker Walsh: Or at least, you know, I know I was. And you know, it's not like you have to go out there and be sort of rough around the edges, but really you need to be, I think, more authentic in order to sort of also discover like, what am I really thinking? And then on top of it, yeah, like how can I communicate that externally?

[00:41:22] Tucker Walsh: 'cause people are really buying your differentiated thinking when they're buying an investment strategy.

[00:41:27] Stacy Havener: As a writer, this just hits on so many levels. But you know, I think there's so much truth to the fact that, you know, we write for other people, right? So you're publishing, you know, you're writing. So investors can get a glimpse into that differentiated thinking.

[00:41:41] Stacy Havener: But the reality is we're really writing for ourselves. We're writing for ourselves because for many of us, that is the path to clarity. And you know, when I listen to you talk and some of these thoughts that are just. Really unique and special like that Air Pocket or [00:42:00] even this idea that like a specialist manager could get stifled inside of a big company mentality.

[00:42:08] Stacy Havener: Like those are, when you say it, I'm like, yes, of course, but like I imagine that these were ideas that came to be because you were taking the time to live with your thoughts and allow them to be authentically yours. Which isn't easy to do when you work for a big company and they say, write a commentary.

[00:42:29] Right? Yeah.

[00:42:29] Stacy Havener: Yeah. So is that freeing or is it challenging or both?

[00:42:34] Tucker Walsh: I think it's both. You know, you do, when you go on your own, start your own boutique, you know, I've done this a couple of times over and it, you know, it doesn't get any easier. Even though you've done it, it doesn't get any easier. But I think the things that you're used to having in terms of support and having sort of a big team around you and everything else.

[00:42:53] Tucker Walsh: It can be comforting, but at the same time, it could also stifle your individuality, which is a little bit [00:43:00] like what we've been talking about. And I think it's the individuality that the clients want to hear because they're really buying, you know, they're buying the people Yeah. That are making the decisions.

[00:43:13] Tucker Walsh: And so in a way it's freeing. And at the same time, it also could be a bit terrifying because you, you know, you take away a lot of that support. You end up learning a lot about some of the other areas of the business, which, you know, I also wouldn't trade in for anything.

[00:43:29] Stacy Havener: Yeah, that's so well said. And before we go to some of my, um, quick fire questions at the end, I.

[00:43:37] Stacy Havener: I wanna come back to something you said just right there, and also earlier about seeding, because I wonder, you know, knowing what you know now, this being your third boutique that you're creating, like what advice would you give to somebody who's starting out on the journey? Um, I can tell you this is like real time and I haven't, [00:44:00] I haven't had time to sit down and write this out yet, so I'm sort of thinking out loud with you here.

[00:44:05] Stacy Havener: But what's happening with the seed situation is you would choke, like literally it's a noose around boutiques, necks right now.

[00:44:16] Mm-hmm.

[00:44:16] Stacy Havener: The economics are so tipped in the favor of the cedar that I don't actually know. I mean, if you really wanna start a boutique, you don't have a lot of options for people to help you and to your point.

[00:44:31] Stacy Havener: I believe we need more boutiques, not less, and we need people to help them get going. And you've had that experience, so like what advice would you give to somebody who's like, I really wanna do this and I've got all kinds of odds and shitty deals I'm being presented here.

[00:44:50] Tucker Walsh: Yeah, well I mean we've, we've explored some of those as well, and I think one of the things that's a real hurdle is, you know, the chicken and egg problem.

[00:44:59] Tucker Walsh: You gotta be [00:45:00] over a hundred million. You have to be over x to be able to get onto this or, yeah. And the thing that we're doing and have been doing now for a little while is just really trying to get down to really grassroots and try and build it slowly and Yeah. You know, build up a bunch of small allocations to build on top of each other.

[00:45:20] Tucker Walsh: It, it requires a level of patience. And I would say. Getting really familiar with what it takes to do small building blocks to get to where you need to get to instead of getting one big check. 'cause as you said, you know, I mean, it's tempting, but you may not get the right partner and they might not stay with you for long enough, for you to build your business.

[00:45:44] Tucker Walsh: And so I think just really digging into what does it really take to build this? Small and incremental rather than thinking about going out and like marketing to a different group. So that would be number one.

[00:45:59] Stacy Havener: It's great [00:46:00] advice. And also I like it for other things, like I'm a big believer that you do the things that don't scale, which is what you're saying, right?

[00:46:08] Stacy Havener: You're doing the The founder's network, the friends. The familiars and you're taking small, incremental steps towards what you wanna build. And that is tough to scale, but actually that's kind of what you need to do for it to be special and highlight your uniques and really build something that has the ability to last, because things that happen quick.

[00:46:33] Stacy Havener: I mean, there's no easy button on this.

[00:46:37] Tucker Walsh: No, that's right. And also. Someone who might really like you for your short term performance might really hate you for your bad short-term performance. So a

[00:46:45] Stacy Havener: hundred percent agree with that. People who buy performance sell it, and that is a buyer beware for sure.

[00:46:52] Stacy Havener: That's great advice. Any other bits of advice you'd give, essentially your younger self, but basically the next generation [00:47:00] of founders here?

[00:47:01] Tucker Walsh: Yeah, I, I would say that one of the things that I would give advice on is. Be rigorous in your process, but flexible in your structure. Yeah.

[00:47:11] Stacy Havener: What do you mean by that?

[00:47:12] Tucker Walsh: Well, as investment managers, we sell ourselves on our differentiated thought and our ability to repeat what we've shown.

[00:47:22] Stacy Havener: Okay.

[00:47:23] Tucker Walsh: And that comes out in our ability to describe our investment process. Right? People wanna understand what are the steps that you do? How do you find great companies? Yeah. Et cetera.

[00:47:33] Tucker Walsh: That really ends up being table stakes, but you have to execute it well.

[00:47:38] Yes, and

[00:47:38] Tucker Walsh: so I would say it's important to do that and have a very regimented process on how you do the investment part, but be flexible in your structure, meaning that if you need to make a variation on the way you offer your strategy to be able to deliver the returns that are gonna get you clients seriously, think about [00:48:00] that.

[00:48:00] Tucker Walsh: Instead of thinking about that rigidly. Or you know, oh, investment, you know, the community for db, oh, we're just gonna go out to them. And I would argue that that is sort of yesterday's game in terms of raising assets, especially early going for boutique managers. So be flexible in how you're structuring your organization to try to grow.

[00:48:24] Tucker Walsh: So. Why I say, you know, if you're rigorous in your process, your returns should be right where you want 'em to be.

[00:48:30] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.

[00:48:30] Tucker Walsh: But if you're flexible in your structure, it gives you a much better chance of succeeding.

[00:48:35] Stacy Havener: I think that's great. And I think it also invites people into the journey, right? Because they, especially in the early days of building, early adopters wanna feel like they're part of it.

[00:48:46] Yes.

[00:48:46] Stacy Havener: They wanna feel like they're part of it. And so if we're so rigid. That we don't let them in, um, that actually might prevent us from building the thing in the first place. Mm-hmm. Fabulous advice, Tucker. Thank you. I'd love to end with a couple [00:49:00] questions. We're just designed to let us get to know you a bit better.

[00:49:04] Mm-hmm.

[00:49:05] Stacy Havener: Okay. I'm gonna start with, it should be an easy one, but actually if you like to read, it's not an easy one, so it is what it is. Here we go. What book inspires you?

[00:49:16] Tucker Walsh: I would say I'm a big fan of Jim Collins' work in terms of building a company.

[00:49:21] Stacy Havener: Oh yeah. Great. And

[00:49:23] Tucker Walsh: I like great, by choice of all his book, I've read all his books.

[00:49:27] Tucker Walsh: And the one that I like the best is great by choice because it's more about the behaviors and actions of those that create great organizations. So it has a lot of overlap for me, both in thinking about investing, but also building a company. So when I think about aspiring to build a great investment company.

[00:49:46] Stacy Havener: That's a fantastic recommendation and I have not read that, so I am personally noting that for myself. Okay. We're gonna go from books to places. What place inspires you? What's your happy place?

[00:49:59] Tucker Walsh: I would [00:50:00] say a golf course.

[00:50:02] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.

[00:50:02] Tucker Walsh: With my son.

[00:50:04] Stacy Havener: Oh yeah.

[00:50:05] Tucker Walsh: He's outta college now. It's my happy place for the two of us to be able to play golf.

[00:50:10] Tucker Walsh: We, we did a great trip about a year and a half ago to Ireland. And we did a trip last year to Pinehurst. It's just a a great way for me to be in nature doing something that I enjoy and in the company that I want.

[00:50:25] Stacy Havener: I've never liked golf more than I have in this moment. Um, that is a great description of why you like it.

[00:50:32] Stacy Havener: Alright, now we're gonna go to a little bit fun one. Okay. Let's pretend that you are going to give a talk to a stadium full of adoring fans.

[00:50:43] Okay.

[00:50:44] Stacy Havener: You've built amazing businesses. They're here to hear all about that you're about to take the stage. What song do they play for your walkout anthem? Like what's your hype song?

[00:50:56] Tucker Walsh: That's a tough one, Stacy.

[00:50:57] Stacy Havener: We've talked about so many things about the [00:51:00] markets and everything, and we get to the songs and we're like, oh, no.

[00:51:03] Tucker Walsh: Yeah, I, I don't know. That would be a tough one.

[00:51:06] Stacy Havener: Well, how about this? Let's make it less big. You get in your car, you're going to a meeting, you gotta get your vibrate.

[00:51:13] Stacy Havener: What song do you play on the radio? Radio? Do they call it radio? Whatever? What song do you play in the car to hype yourself up?

[00:51:21] Tucker Walsh: You know, to hype myself up, I don't know. Uh, Dave Matthews, stand Up.

[00:51:27] Stacy Havener: Oh, okay. Dave Matthews first appearance on the Billion Dollar Backstory podcast. And a classic. Okay. I love that.

[00:51:35] Stacy Havener: Great answer.

[00:51:36] Tucker Walsh: That would fit for the, um. Speech too, that everyone would have to stand up.

[00:51:41] Stacy Havener: I think there's a lot you could do with that actually. That's got legs. That one. Uh, um, pun intended there. Okay. So we'll run with that. We'll do something with that at some point. We're switching gears here. To what profession, other than your own, would you like to attempt?

[00:51:59] Tucker Walsh: I [00:52:00] would say, um, my family doesn't even know this, uh, documentary filmmaker.

[00:52:05] Stacy Havener: That's brilliant. Why

[00:52:07] Tucker Walsh: I find it fascinating. I find people stories or like locational stories to be really interesting. I don't think I have enough sort of artistic ability to pull off that career.

[00:52:21] Yeah.

[00:52:22] Tucker Walsh: But if I did, I, I would really like it because I would want to tell a story about someone or something that many people didn't know about and should have on their radar.

[00:52:35] Stacy Havener: I Okay. When you, when we do this, I'm coming with you. We're gonna do, that'll be fun. In our next life, we're gonna have that, that vision become real. Okay. Flip side, what profession would you not like to do?

[00:52:48] Tucker Walsh: Oh, that one's so easy for me.

[00:52:50] Stacy Havener: What

[00:52:51] Tucker Walsh: politics? It's all hype and it's too emotional and it's all theater and like no truth.

[00:52:58] Stacy Havener: Oh God, yeah. Uh, [00:53:00] it's true. It's a great one. That one comes up a lot. And the other one is doctor, which I find really interesting because the investment industry being full of such, you know, kind of smart, precise individuals, but politician and doctor are probably the two. It's kind of an interesting anecdotal research I'm conducting here.

[00:53:22] Stacy Havener: All right, last one. And this is hopefully no time soon. What do you want people to say about you after you've retired or left the industry?

[00:53:32] Tucker Walsh: I would want people to think of me as a person who saw where the world was going and have the guts to act on it with, you know, clarity and purpose.

[00:53:44] Stacy Havener: Did you just make that up right there?

[00:53:45] Stacy Havener: I

[00:53:46] Tucker Walsh: sort of got that question once before, and so I did give it a little thought beforehand, but that's

[00:53:52] Stacy Havener: amazing. Yeah, that was really great and. I think you are. You're doing it and you're [00:54:00] doing it with such bravery and it's very fun to be a small part of your journey. Tucker, both, you know what you're building at Aero side and for you, I am cheering for you.

[00:54:10] Stacy Havener: I am grateful for your time today. Thank you very much for being here.

[00:54:15] Tucker Walsh: Thank you, Stacey. This was a great conversation. Really enjoyed it.

[00:54:18] Stacy Havener: Good. I'm glad. And if people wanna follow along, you've mentioned publishing. Can you just kind of give us like where can we find you sort of bits?

[00:54:28] Tucker Walsh: Yes. I publish on Substack, it's called the Zen Innovation Investor, and I put it out every sort of three or four weeks and it covers, I sort of consider it to be sort of a running white paper, a rolling white paper because,

[00:54:44] Stacy Havener: oh, I like that there

[00:54:44] Tucker Walsh: are difficult topics to take on all the time and I feel like it's a good thing to just be sort of clear on, on some of those topics.

[00:54:52] Tucker Walsh: And I also. I post a lot on LinkedIn, so

[00:54:56] Stacy Havener: great.

[00:54:57] Tucker Walsh: I I do that and then when I put out a [00:55:00] new blog post, I also highlight it on LinkedIn.

[00:55:03] Stacy Havener: Wonderful. So find Tucker on LinkedIn or his steps stack. Thank you again, Tucker, for being here. We'll talk to you soon.

[00:55:12] Tucker Walsh: Thanks, Stacy.

[00:55:12] Stacy Havener: This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions.

[00:55:18] Stacy Havener: The information is not an offer, solicitation, or recommendation of any of the funds, services, or products, or to adopt any investment strategy. Investment values may fluctuate and past performance is not a guide to future performance. All opinions expressed by guests on the show are solely their own opinion and do not necessarily reflect those at their firm.

[00:55:38] Stacy Havener: Manager's appearance on the show does not constitute an endorsement by Stacey Haven or Haven or Capital Partners.

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