Episode 139: She dealt blackjack to pay for college. Now she runs a $5 trillion company. Meet Orion CEO, Natalie Wolfsen.
Subscribe to Billion Dollar Backstory on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Most CEO stories start with an Ivy League credential and a tidy career ladder, but this one starts with a blackjack table.
Before Natalie Wolfsen was running Orion, she was dealing cards to pay for college. At the time, she had no idea that the lessons she was learning on that casino floor would follow her all the way to the C-suite.
In this episode, Natalie opens up about the chapters that don't fit neatly on a résumé and why she believes those are often the most important ones.
Listen in to hear:
How she parlayed casino marketing into a career in finance
Why she walked away from a thriving role at American Express to try entrepreneurship
The startup that failed in 8 months and why she'd do it again in a heartbeat
How saying yes to "inconvenient" opportunities compounded into a career she never could have planned
More about Natalie Wolfsen:
Natalie Wolfsen joined Orion Advisor Solutions as CEO in October 2023 and is a member of the firm’s Board of Directors. She is the former CEO of AssetMark and has nearly 30 years of financial services industry experience. For over 25 years, Natalie has served independent advisors (RIA and broker-dealer affiliated) with more than a decade of working with independent and insurance broker-dealers. Prior to joining AssetMark in 2014, Natalie previously held digital and investment platform development, investment solution management, strategy and marketing roles at First Eagle Investment Management, Pershing, Charles Schwab and American Express. Natalie has an MBA from University of California, Los Angeles and a Bachelor of Arts degree from University of California, Berkeley.
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Book(s):
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings by Maya Angelou | https://a.co/d/0bmpB9iD
Song(s):
"One Way or Another" by Blondie | https://youtu.be/valVixMpzQY?si=oriDdYS-U8TR4VQb
TRANSCRIPT
Below is an AI-generated transcript and therefore it may contain errors.
[00:00:00] Stacy Havener: If I told you that today's podcast guest is a woman who paid her way through university, working as a card dealer at a casino, parlayed that into a marketing career in gaming, and now is the CEO of one of the premier financial services firms, if I told you that, would you grab your popcorn immediately?
[00:00:24] Stacy Havener: Because that's what's about to happen. There are so many amazing moments in my conversation with Natalie Wolfson, CEO of Orion, a $5 trillion wealth tech platform. One of my favorite things about this podcast is that we can see our lives reflected back to us in other people's stories, and that can lead to improvements in our ability to own our story with intention.
[00:00:57] Stacy Havener: I've done over 100 [00:01:00] episodes of this podcast and my conversation with Natalie captures that vibe perfectly. You don't wanna miss this. Settle in and meet my friend, Natalie. Hey, my name is Stacey Haven. I'm obsessed with startups, stories, and sales. Storytelling has fueled my success as a female founder in the Toughest Boys Club, wall Street.
[00:01:26] Stacy Havener: I've raised over 8 billion that has led to 30 billion in follow on assets for investment boutiques, you could say against the odds. Yeah, understatement. I share stories of the people behind the portfolios while teaching you how to use story to shape outcomes. It's real talk here. Money, authenticity, growth, setbacks, sales and marketing are all topics we discuss.
[00:01:52] Stacy Havener: Think of this as the capital raising class you wish you had in college mixed with happy hour. [00:02:00] Pull up a seat, grab your notebook, and get ready to be inspired and challenged while you learn. This is the Billion dollar Backstory podcast.
[00:02:12] Stacy Havener: Wouldn't it be cool if you could diversify your investor base and add some non-US investors? Europe could be fun, or Latin America, maybe Antarctica. Hey, icebergs aren't really my jam, but you never know. You've only got one problem. How the heck do you do that? Fair question, but maybe this is a who not how thing.
[00:02:35] Stacy Havener: Meet my friends at Gem Cap. Not only do they handle all the back office stuff, the how. They'll also solve the who in your distribution conundrum. They have an incredible network of distribution partners who can help you sell the thing. Once you've built the thing and Gem Cap won't just help you launch globally, they'll tell you where to go and maybe more importantly, where [00:03:00] not to go.
[00:03:01] Stacy Havener: Saving you time, money, and annoying headaches. Want to find out if your investment firm is ready to go global? Visit billion dollar backstory.com/gem cap ge, G-E-M-C-A-P. We've created a quick quiz that'll help you figure out if you're ready to expand beyond the US and side note, it's pretty fun too. Get your firm in front of the right investors in the right places with Gem Cap.
[00:03:30] Stacy Havener: Take the quiz and get more info@billiondollarbackstory.com slash gem cap ge, M-M-C-A-P.
[00:03:43] Stacy Havener: Okay, so I'm just going to dive right in and listen. If we do this right Natalie, the best thing that's gonna happen is we're gonna forget we're on a podcast. We're gonna think we're sitting in a coffee shop somewhere just chatting. That's how we know we've got the vibe we want. Okay?
[00:03:59] Natalie Wolfsen: All right, sounds [00:04:00] great.
[00:04:00] Stacy Havener: Okay, Natalie, thank you so much for being here today. I am a big Orion fan, big Daniel Crosby, big Daniel Crosby fan, big fan of what you're building, and big fan of you. This is our first conversation and I'm thrilled to be able to invite our listeners in to join us. So thank you very much for being here.
[00:04:25] Natalie Wolfsen: It's awesome to be here. And I am a big Daniel Crosby fan too. I am also a big Orion fan, uh, and a big fan of yours. And so thanks for having me today. It's really wonderful to
[00:04:35] Stacy Havener: be here. Oh, wonderful. Well, let's start with backstory. It's, it's sort of the vision of the podcast is really to let people see the people behind the companies, the portfolios who are making the magic happen.
[00:04:50] Stacy Havener: Because I feel, especially in our industry, it's one of the things that maybe is underappreciated, that these are real human beings doing [00:05:00] real work, and everyone has a story and I'd love to learn yours. So my first question is, did you, if you go into the way back machine, when you were growing up. Did you always envision that you would be in finance or did you have a different vision?
[00:05:16] Stacy Havener: And then we can kind of fill in the dots in between?
[00:05:20] Natalie Wolfsen: So I had no idea when I was growing up that finance was even an option. Like no clue. And I disliked math pretty actively. And so if you had asked me as a high schooler or um, when I was young, if you had described what financial services was and used the word math, I'm sure I would've told you that there was an absolute impossibility.
[00:05:44] Natalie Wolfsen: And then, uh, you know, it's interesting, you find your first job, you, you know, you go to, you go to college and you get a degree that interests you. And for me it was political science. Oh, I thought I was gonna be a lawyer or do something in politics. And then, you know, the time comes to get your first job.
[00:05:59] Natalie Wolfsen: [00:06:00] And I was very fortunate to get an internship. In marketing. And then I just realized out of nowhere, 'cause I did not get a business degree that I liked marketing and ev everything sort of happened organically from there.
[00:06:13] Stacy Havener: Was it a marketing role inside of a financial services company?
[00:06:17] Natalie Wolfsen: So the first internship I had in marketing was actually in the gaming industry.
[00:06:22] Natalie Wolfsen: In the casino business. No way.
[00:06:24] Stacy Havener: Because that's how I way
[00:06:24] put
[00:06:24] Natalie Wolfsen: myself through school. Yeah. That's why I put myself through school, um, dealing cards and so, yes. Yes. And so I did that for a number of years and when I realized I wanted to move to kind, like kind of a professional
[00:06:37] Stacy Havener: job. Yeah.
[00:06:38] Natalie Wolfsen: Uh, friend of mine told me, get an internship and the most li most, most likely place to get an internship when you're, uh, still figuring out what you wanna do is with a place you already work.
[00:06:47] Natalie Wolfsen: And so I went to the HR department at Caesar's, uh, which is where I worked at the time. And I got an internship in marketing and I loved it and casino marketing at that time, and I'm, I'm sure it's stills true, but at [00:07:00] that time was really creative. Like it was on the cutting edge of marketing, direct marketing and personal marketing.
[00:07:05] Natalie Wolfsen: And so then I decided I didn't wanna work in the casino business and moved to New York without a job and just happened to get my first job at American Express. And that's how I sort of got to financial services.
[00:07:16] Stacy Havener: I have so many questions right now, Natalie. Like this is the cool, we've had a lot of great backstories and everyone's story is cool.
[00:07:25] Stacy Havener: This may go down as one of the coolest ever. Well, I mean, okay, so let's, okay. I have questions upon questions. The first question I have is, how does somebody who doesn't like math end up being a dealer? In a casino, because I mean, when you watch all the movies about like, you know, whatever, all, it's like, there's so much math in blackjack and in the games and in the stats and the probabilities.
[00:07:53] Stacy Havener: But you didn't like math at all?
[00:07:55] Natalie Wolfsen: No, I did not like math at all. You know, when I was in college, I realized [00:08:00] I needed to get a job.
[00:08:01] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:08:01] Natalie Wolfsen: That paid a certain amount of money for me to pay my tuition.
[00:08:04] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:08:04] Natalie Wolfsen: And uh, the industry that was local was the gaming industry. And so I had a, had a reason to overcome my fear of math.
[00:08:14] Natalie Wolfsen: And for the six years that I dealt cards, I just learned to really enjoy math. So I, you know, I started with blackjack and then went to Roulettes and roulette and then eventually learned to, to deal craps. I didn't, I didn't deal craps that often. And you just learn that math is a lot easier than you make it out to be.
[00:08:34] Natalie Wolfsen: And. Dealing cards, it's also entertainment. You know, you have to name and you have to do math and um, I just got to really enjoy it.
[00:08:43] Stacy Havener: And you have to deal with people.
[00:08:45] Natalie Wolfsen: Yes.
[00:08:45] Stacy Havener: Which I'm like, wow. Haha. Let's talk about that because that where math maybe you felt like, okay, yep. This isn't as intimidating. The people bit.
[00:08:56] Stacy Havener: Talk to me about that, because really to your point on [00:09:00] entertaining, you know, you have the skill and the craft of, of being a dealer, but then you also have to have the skill and the craft of being, you know, sort of, I don't wanna say on a stage, but a little bit and also sort of in engaging your. Audience, if you will, at the table.
[00:09:16] Stacy Havener: And so how is that for you or how do you think about that?
[00:09:20] Natalie Wolfsen: You know, I've said it many times that there are so many things I learned dealing cards that I take with me even today. You know? Yeah. Being a CEO or you have to be doing multiple things at once, you know, so you know, when you're dealing cards, you have to make sure that your game is running at a certain pace.
[00:09:36] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:09:37] Natalie Wolfsen: You have to be accurate and reliable. And then you also have to be entertaining and welcoming. And I just grew to really enjoy learning about people, you know? Mm-hmm. You ask them where they're from, what they do, um, you find out a little bit about the type of experience they want. Like some players, they don't wanna talk to you at all.
[00:09:53] Stacy Havener: Mm.
[00:09:54] Natalie Wolfsen: And that's okay. Others, you know, are there like at a bachelorette party or a bachelor party and they really [00:10:00] wanna, you know, have an engaging, you know, conversation. They're celebrating and they want you to celebrate with them. And I just enjoyed learning about people and, you know, participating in all these amazing events that were happening and, and folks' lives.
[00:10:13] Natalie Wolfsen: And over time, you know, it, it was, it wasn't a job as much as it was something that I really wanted to be great at. Wow. I love that. And you know, I think, I feel like if you take that into whatever you do, where you find aspects of whatever the role is that excite you and interests you and you can learn from and you wanna be great at it, everything else kind of falls by the wayside,
[00:10:34] Stacy Havener: falls into place
[00:10:35] Natalie Wolfsen: and yeah.
[00:10:36] Stacy Havener: Wow. So random question, and then I wanna, and then I wanna sort of connect that dot between gaming and financial services. Um, the people that did you have regulars. Or was it mostly just transient, like people coming into town to, like you said, celebrate something? Or did you have like regulars who were like, oh, I gotta go to Natalie's table?
[00:10:58] Stacy Havener: She's, she's a Miguel, [00:11:00]
[00:11:00] Natalie Wolfsen: so mostly folks that were celebrating something are there for the weekend. I dealt cards in Lake Tahoe, Nevada. Okay. And so it's definitely more of a, a, a vacation oriented location than say someplace like Atlantic City or Reno. Yeah. Where you would have regulars. I did have a few regulars, um, but the vast majority of folks were, were there for a weekend or there for a week on vacation.
[00:11:22] Stacy Havener: So you really have to learn how to connect quickly because they're not Yeah. Fascinating.
[00:11:28] Natalie Wolfsen: Yeah. Folks, folks, let's just say they were there for a week and they wanted to ski. And so the day they were skiing in the evening, they were, um, they were playing cards or, or roulette. You know, I often had folks come back.
[00:11:39] Natalie Wolfsen: Night after night. Yeah. For a week. And you know, it's, it's, it's interesting 'cause you, you form a, a relationship with folks for that week of time in an environment where all things being equal, you're gonna be taking their money. Yeah. I mean, that's the, the house wins over time. And so I always just tried to make sure that folks had a, had a good time, learned something like I tried to [00:12:00] be a, a teacher, uh, you know, help them understand basic strategy or, you know, the odds.
[00:12:04] Natalie Wolfsen: Um, you know, folks, in my experience, most folks really liked to learn a little bit about the game and about the industry and what they could do to at least, you know, play smart.
[00:12:15] Stacy Havener: Mm Ooh, I love that. I love the teaching angle. I feel like that's gonna come back. So now there's this interesting comment you made earlier where you said, okay, so I got this opportunity to sort of get off the tables and come into the office.
[00:12:30] Stacy Havener: Air quotes and you know, do marketing. And then he went to American Express. But one of the things he said about marketing in the gaming industry is it's super creative. And then I go, Hmm. Because then you went from that to American Express, the finance industry, not really known for super creativity. Yeah.
[00:12:52] Stacy Havener: And so how were you in marketing at American Express and how was that journey for you?
[00:12:56] Natalie Wolfsen: So first thing is I dealt cards at night and then went to [00:13:00] marketing and worked, did my internship journey. Oh, you're doing
[00:13:01] Stacy Havener: At the same time.
[00:13:02] Natalie Wolfsen: So I was doing it at the same time.
[00:13:04] Stacy Havener: Wow.
[00:13:05] Natalie Wolfsen: And that was amazing. To be able to market something and then see the impact of it.
[00:13:11] Natalie Wolfsen: Like to do a campaign and then see people who came in because of the campaign you did, or, you know, to tie, you know, a, a gaming portion of their stay to the, to the room that they were staying in and the, the entertainment that they were giving. And to see folks, you know, and be able to ask them, you know, why you're here.
[00:13:26] Natalie Wolfsen: Oh, I got this promotional thing in the mail. Oh, what was it about the promotional materials that made you come? And so it was this great active learning.
[00:13:34] Stacy Havener: Wow.
[00:13:35] Natalie Wolfsen: Which I loved. And to this day, I spend a lot of time with clients and a lot of time with salespeople in their environment. So go to their office, you know, go to their events so I can meet with their clients.
[00:13:46] Natalie Wolfsen: 'cause I think that learning loop is, is so important. Yes. Uh, to see what's working and what's not. But so I, I got, I had the experience in the casino industry, and then I decided to move to New York and a few months later I, I got my first job at American [00:14:00] Express and they hired me at American Express only because of that experience, only because of that internship.
[00:14:06] Natalie Wolfsen: I had a little bit of experience. It was, and it was, the hiring manager liked the idea of someone who was interested in learning more about in, in this case, payments. And one of the great things about American Express is it's also very creative. Oh, it was
[00:14:22] Stacy Havener: great
[00:14:23] Natalie Wolfsen: marketing. Um, you know, they were real trendsetters and rewards programs and some of the marketing tools that are very ubiquitous today.
[00:14:31] Natalie Wolfsen: Um, building communities and rewards programs and connecting travel and connecting, you know, uh, travel experiences with card experiences. And so I learned a lot at American Express and I, I really love being there. The other thing I learned there, and. It reinforced, you know, Caesar's has a great brand in the gaming industry.
[00:14:49] Natalie Wolfsen: Mm-hmm. Or at least did at the time, was one of the most well-known brands. And American Express had an incredible brand, obviously too. Still does. And so learned a lot about, you know, protecting your brand and [00:15:00] growing your brand and the decisions you make in marketing related to, to your brand. And so, unfortunately, as much as I loved American Express, I did not love payments.
[00:15:10] Natalie Wolfsen: It was a little like, uh, gaming, it just wasn't my interest.
[00:15:13] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:13] Natalie Wolfsen: And so when I decided I was gonna do something different, I started a company and, uh, you know, I did this with a group of friends and that company, we had a good idea, but not enough. We hadn't spent enough time on figuring out how we were gonna finance it before we got it started.
[00:15:29] Stacy Havener: Hmm.
[00:15:29] Natalie Wolfsen: And so the, the company failed pretty quickly and I learned a lot from that, just. Again, things you take through your career. But I had an opportunity after that to decide do I wanna go back to American Express where I was successful, or do I wanna try something new? And I decided I wanted to move back to the West Coast and I wanted to do something other than payments.
[00:15:48] Natalie Wolfsen: I mean, visa is in the Bay Area as well. And so I could have, you know, worked, um, in, in a different payments company. And I decided I'd learned a little bit about brokerage at Amerit Express, and it just [00:16:00] interested me. Mm. And so I, I took a job, uh, I had. You know, multiple job offers at the time. And I took a job at Schwab and it actually paid me a little less because I wanted to learn about brokerage and I wanted to learn about that part of the industry.
[00:16:15] Natalie Wolfsen: And I'm so glad I did because suddenly I was at a company that was trying to do great things that also has a great brand and a part of the industry. They just fascinated me from the beginning, from the first day I was in it. And I, I always encourage people, you know, find something that you are, you're really interested in.
[00:16:33] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:16:33] Natalie Wolfsen: Um, because if you're interested, you know, you do great work.
[00:16:36] Stacy Havener: Isn't that the truth? Yeah. Wait, can we go back to the business, the entrepreneurial endeavor? You just snuck that in there.
[00:16:44] Natalie Wolfsen: Yeah.
[00:16:44] Stacy Havener: I mean, so what type of business was this?
[00:16:47] Natalie Wolfsen: So at the time, and again, this was a long time ago. Yeah. Our idea was we were gonna automate the home, so put every home on a replenishment cycle where, you know, you [00:17:00] could, you could help us understand what brands you liked to, to consume.
[00:17:03] Natalie Wolfsen: Mm-hmm. Whether it was, you know, tied detergent or a certain type of soap, a certain type of face wash, a certain type of, you know, toilet paper. Mm-hmm. You know, name your home, um, your home replenishable, and we were gonna put you on a cycle so that you didn't have to go to the grocery store and replenish those things.
[00:17:19] Natalie Wolfsen: And it was, I still think it was a great idea. And Amazon now does a lot of these things. At the time though, the initial startup costs. Mm-hmm. The development of that with all the shipping and all of the distribution, um, was very, very high.
[00:17:36] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:37] Natalie Wolfsen: And when we went to investors, um, they asked questions about how we could scale it up and scale it up quickly.
[00:17:43] Natalie Wolfsen: And those were really good questions that we didn't have the right answers to at the time. And so that's what I mean about, I wish we had spent a little bit more time before we kicked off. Um, we thought, we thought a lot through marketing and how we would go to market and how we would price, but we didn't [00:18:00] think, uh, think enough about the infrastructure and logistics.
[00:18:04] Stacy Havener: So, you know, what's, so, I mean, first of all, what a cool idea a and what a cool experience mm-hmm. To try be, you know, try entrepreneurship on, so to speak. And very interesting that you were at such large companies, then you had like this entrepreneurial thread that you were like, gotta explore this. This sounds cool.
[00:18:29] Stacy Havener: Yeah. And then went back to, you know, I don't know how large Schwab was then, but you know, we could say a large company. It certainly is now,
[00:18:37] Natalie Wolfsen: it's about 10,000 employees.
[00:18:39] Stacy Havener: It was, yeah. Yeah. That's that's a, that's a big company. So what was that like? Do you feel, and, and I love what you said before, it's like when you're on the journey, these things don't make a lot of sense.
[00:18:50] Stacy Havener: But then when you have hindsight sort of, you're like, oh, I see how this all fits together and how that role or that experience added something to what I'm [00:19:00] doing today. So when you think about that entrepreneurial stint. What did you take with you when you then went back into corporate, so to speak?
[00:19:10] Natalie Wolfsen: You know, it's interesting.
[00:19:12] Natalie Wolfsen: I feel it's really important that when you're young in your career, that you take chances.
[00:19:16] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:19:17] Natalie Wolfsen: And, you know, I had a great thing going at American Express, like a really wonderful boss, a great job. You know, I had just been promoted. I mean, really, really great thing going there. And I had this opportunity to, to do this entrepreneurial endeavor with some folks that were very senior to me.
[00:19:35] Stacy Havener: Mm.
[00:19:35] Natalie Wolfsen: And I thought to myself, if I'm not gonna do this now, when I, you know, I don't have a mortgage and I don't have a family, and you know, I'm, I'm building my career, when would I do it? And why not know, like, why not understand and know and learn? You know, I think folks. I think too much about the risk of change and not enough about the risk of not changing.
[00:19:58] Natalie Wolfsen: And so I learned [00:20:00] so much in that it was about eight months.
[00:20:02] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:20:02] Natalie Wolfsen: This eight months period about, you know, again, I was in marketing at the time and think of all that I learned about logistics and then pricing and financing and you know, hr, you know, the very first day of this company, capital
[00:20:17] Stacy Havener: raising
[00:20:18] Natalie Wolfsen: Exactly.
[00:20:18] Stacy Havener: Sales. Yeah,
[00:20:20] Natalie Wolfsen: exactly. And I love the fact that I got to experiment with a whole different industry, you know, at that stage of my career. And it turned out it didn't work. I mean, it turned out that it didn't work for good reasons, and it turned out that, you know, the company didn't take off. I, but I take all that knowledge and one of the things I learned was early stage venture isn't for me, it's for a lot of folks.
[00:20:43] Natalie Wolfsen: It's for a lot of folks. Yeah. And, but there's a degree of ambiguity in early stage venture that you either love or is difficult for you. And for me personally, it was a little difficult. Doesn't mean that I, you know, doesn't [00:21:00] mean that I'm a bad person or a bad business person, but it just was difficult for me.
[00:21:04] Natalie Wolfsen: And so when I decided, when, when the company failed and I changed my location, moved back to the San Francisco Bay area, I said, you know, I wanna give, I wanna give another part of the industry a try.
[00:21:15] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:21:16] Natalie Wolfsen: Uh, and not necessarily be so early stage.
[00:21:18] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:21:19] Natalie Wolfsen: That's why I was looking at companies like, like Schwab and Visa and at the time for Vian, some others.
[00:21:25] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm. You know, I, I was chatting with someone this week and we were talking about, you know, early career. Experiences and they said something similar. I love what you've said right here. They said something similar, which is sometimes the learning you need is what you don't like.
[00:21:46] Natalie Wolfsen: Mm-hmm.
[00:21:47] Stacy Havener: I mean, it's great to find what you do, but the inverse of that is also really formative.
[00:21:54] Stacy Havener: And so to your point, it's not good or bad, it just is. The other [00:22:00] thing that I can imagine, and I'm sure this is gonna come out as we continue talking, is that early stage venture being ambiguous, totally get that. But also entrepreneurial mindset is separate from early stage venture or later stage or whatever.
[00:22:17] Stacy Havener: It's sort of that mindset that you got to experience for eight months and something tells me that that mindset though is maybe something. Special and unique about you as you now come back into the corporate world. So when you were at Schwab, did you come back into marketing or was it a different role?
[00:22:37] Natalie Wolfsen: I came back into marketing.
[00:22:38] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:22:39] Natalie Wolfsen: And I was an active trader and affluent marketing at Schwab. And so the, the function was familiar to me.
[00:22:48] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:22:49] Natalie Wolfsen: The industry and the client was completely different. You know, the other thing I'll just say is when you found a company with a small group of people and that company doesn't work.
[00:22:58] Stacy Havener: Mm.
[00:22:59] Natalie Wolfsen: You learn [00:23:00] that you can get through failure.
[00:23:01] Stacy Havener: Ooh.
[00:23:02] Natalie Wolfsen: Like, you know, it's really disappointing, you know, if you put it in the most negative context, which I try not to do, but if you put in the most negative context, you've put your career on hold, you are probably making a lot less, you've taken a lot of risks.
[00:23:15] Natalie Wolfsen: You've put your reputation on the line, all the things you need to do if you're an entrepreneur and are happy to do if you're an entrepreneur, and then it doesn't work out.
[00:23:22] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:22] Natalie Wolfsen: And so it's, you know, on paper it's a failure. Then you turn the page and suddenly you're in a new chapter of your career and your life and you realize that you can, you can succeed through failure.
[00:23:36] Natalie Wolfsen: Like there, it's not the end. It's just a whole bunch of experience that takes you to that next chapter. And, um, I wouldn't trade that for anything, uh, because yeah. There have been other times in my career, I mean, any career where you try something and on paper it seems like it would be perfect, and then for reasons that you didn't understand or maybe didn't control it doesn't work out.
[00:23:57] Natalie Wolfsen: And then you just, you turn the page and you go onto the [00:24:00] next thing with all those learnings behind you. And so I'm, I'm really glad I did that. And when I got to Schwab, I took that enthusiasm Yeah. That only entrepreneurs have Yeah. In the Schwab.
[00:24:11] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:24:11] Natalie Wolfsen: Where there are many ways that, you know, Schwab was trying to be innovative and trendsetting and they were at the time and they still are in a lot of ways.
[00:24:20] Natalie Wolfsen: Yeah. But particularly at that time. And so I took those learnings and how to really pursue something with everything you've got that only entrepreneurs understand into the entrepreneurial endeavors that I was given the opportunity to participate in and, and lead at Schwab. And that's, I think one of the reasons that I became so successful ultimately, is any opportunity that came my way.
[00:24:46] Natalie Wolfsen: I'm like, well, this is an opportunity for me to do something really incredible and I'm not gonna waste it. And you learn that when you're an entrepreneur.
[00:24:54] Stacy Havener: Wow. I have chills. I, I, you know. I [00:25:00] agree. I, I remember when you, you know, going back to your comment where you said there's a risk in doing something, but there's also a risk in not doing something, which I think is really profound and has a lot of layers to it.
[00:25:11] Stacy Havener: When I thought about the entrepreneurial journey, and I'd never worked at a big company, so I can imagine that if you were in a large company, the entrepreneurial thing feels even riskier, so to speak, 'cause you're so removed from it. I was always at sort of small boutiques and stuff, so it, it didn't feel as removed, but still scary.
[00:25:28] Stacy Havener: But I remember one of my friends from Fidelity saying. It's, it's almost like the, the freedom of knowing that like, people don't real, they're not gonna care. There's a lot of people that are gonna look at your, at your time as an entrepreneur and say, wow, I wish I had, I wish I did that. Like, how brave of her, and if it doesn't work out, it's not like a, oh, look at this on her resume.
[00:25:50] Stacy Havener: There's a big, you know, black check mark on or x or something on this time. And so I love how you've taken that now into your role. And how [00:26:00] did you go from, you know, sort of this really successful marketeer, if you will, like someone very successful in marketing to then sort of going up into a different level of an organization more as, you know, now sitting here as the CEO.
[00:26:15] Stacy Havener: Like, what was that journey like?
[00:26:18] Natalie Wolfsen: You know, it, it's interesting. It's really important for you to have your plan. Yeah. Like it's, it's really important, but then it's also really important for you to. Be flexible about the plan and to orient around the plan. And so my plan at that time was to eventually be a CMO.
[00:26:34] Natalie Wolfsen: Like I, I wanted to learn all the functions of marketing. You know, I'd had some experience with PR and the casinos, had some experience with sales effectiveness at American Express. Got some experience with campaigning. Um, so just my, my plan was to go through, you know, brand all the aspects of marketing and then eventually be a CMO.
[00:26:53] Natalie Wolfsen: And I was in Active Trader Marketing and there was an initiative that was [00:27:00] just getting underway to serve active traders differently. And I was, active traders were one of my client segments and the initiative was to give traders access to trading wherever they are.
[00:27:13] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:27:13] Natalie Wolfsen: And I had some ideas about that because I really liked technology and I.
[00:27:20] Natalie Wolfsen: Understood the segment really well after working with it for a period of time. And, um, active traders, the behaviors of an active trader are similar in ways to gaming.
[00:27:34] Stacy Havener: I
[00:27:34] Natalie Wolfsen: knew you were, I was
[00:27:35] Stacy Havener: hoping you were gonna say that. Yeah.
[00:27:37] Natalie Wolfsen: Not, not all the activities. Yeah. But, um, and you, we are seeing that now with, uh, prediction markets, you know, at companies like Robinhood, where they're, they're not, the client segment has a lot of overlap.
[00:27:48] Stacy Havener: Mm.
[00:27:49] Natalie Wolfsen: And so. I started sharing my thoughts with the team that was working on making trading more mobile and those ideas [00:28:00] generated an interest in me leading the product development part of that initiative. And, uh, you know, clearly you don't do these things alone.
[00:28:08] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:28:09] Natalie Wolfsen: Like, you know, you have a boss and they have points of view and, and you know, you're working on a team with developers and project managers and things.
[00:28:16] Natalie Wolfsen: Cool. And so then before I knew it, I had this opportunity to go into technical product development and so I did it. And you know, that, that small team at Schwab of, of some of my favorite people I've ever worked with. Oh. We built the first mobile trading application. Wow. And, you know, we did it before there was an iPhone or apps or anything like that.
[00:28:37] Natalie Wolfsen: And, and then I was given more technical development opportunities and I took those technical development opportunities. You know, was promoted and had success and then, you know, suddenly you're, you're not just a marketer, you're also a product developer and a product manager. And then I was given opportunities to do financial product development and [00:29:00] management.
[00:29:00] Natalie Wolfsen: So, you know, I, the team I was on built Schwab's first ETFs as an example. And then, you know, before you know it, you know about product development and technology and product development and investments. You, you've, you've done, you know, segmentation, you're asked to do strategy. And a lot of those moves were, I mean, I was promoted all along the way, but a lot of those moves were laterals do good on this one product, this one project.
[00:29:25] Natalie Wolfsen: They ask you to do a bigger project or product, and they ask you to do another, you know, a completely different but far reaching, you know, and you take those three laterals and then you get promoted and you have all that experience along the way. And then at your next level you say, okay, and now I wanna do, instead of product development, I wanna own like.
[00:29:47] Natalie Wolfsen: Platforms. So platforms of mutual funds and platforms of ETFs and I wanna understand the cash programs, you know, and then they ask you to do strategy because suddenly you know enough about the products. You learned all that [00:30:00] math in the casinos. Well yeah, it's got your MBA and, and then, and then your career kind of takes off and a different direction.
[00:30:06] Natalie Wolfsen: And, and I, you know, again, I didn't plan that I was gonna
[00:30:09] Stacy Havener: Yeah, going back to that plan.
[00:30:12] Natalie Wolfsen: Yeah, yeah.
[00:30:13] Stacy Havener: It was different. So did you rewrite, so this is so cool. So you obviously rewrote the plan. You're like, okay, so I don't necessarily wanna be the cmmo anymore. Now I'm vibing on all these like, tech things. And as you said, all the different things that you got to own, you know, leading question.
[00:30:31] Stacy Havener: 'cause I, I am also a marketer and believe so strongly in the power of that skillset. So leading question I own, I own that bias. But foundationally, do you feel like that helped you as you were creating product? Because one of the things I find so interesting is like, if you haven't had to sell air quotes something or market something, but you are the creator of the product, there can be a massive disconnect [00:31:00] between what you think the market wants and what the market actually wants.
[00:31:06] Stacy Havener: It's kind. And so do you feel that that marketing foundation, in addition to the gaming stuff, which is so, which amazing thread, but that marketing foundation that help you when you got into the product development and the strategy, et cetera?
[00:31:19] Natalie Wolfsen: Uh, absolutely. I mean, every piece matters, right? Yeah. Like you bring, you bring every bit of learning that you've had to whatever you do next, you know, as a CEO now.
[00:31:30] Natalie Wolfsen: A lot of what I do is communicate. Mm. You know, you communicate strategy, you communicate ideas, you communicate a mission, you get, you know, a team of, you know, in my case, about 1500 people aligned. And same thing when you're trying to develop a product. You're, you're, you're communicating, you're communicating, you're positioning.
[00:31:50] Natalie Wolfsen: 'cause you want to invest in certain areas and you think they're important. You know, you're evaluating what do clients need and how do those client needs translate into product features? What are they willing to pay? [00:32:00] You know, that's all strategic marketing.
[00:32:02] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:32:02] Natalie Wolfsen: Um, in, in one way or another. And so having that period of time in my career where I really learned effective communication and effective market research, and then translating that into business outcomes, which is what great marketers do.
[00:32:17] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:32:17] Natalie Wolfsen: And that's what great brands do.
[00:32:18] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:32:19] Natalie Wolfsen: Um, I'm so glad I had that time to do that. I'm equally glad I had the time working in product development. Mm-hmm.
[00:32:25] Stacy Havener: Because.
[00:32:26] Natalie Wolfsen: Testing and learning and iterating really quickly. Bringing an idea together and understanding how that translates into a user experience that surprises and delights whoever's using, um, you know, whatever you've developed, whether it's a financial instrument or a, or a technology product.
[00:32:41] Natalie Wolfsen: I mean, I take that into everything I do today.
[00:32:46] Stacy Havener: It's a great point. And what I, I'm thinking about two things here. I hope I don't lose them. Um, so the first is. That the path, and, and we know, we know this intellectually, but I think in our own lives it's hard, it's difficult to trust it. Maybe that the [00:33:00] path to CEO or the path to the success you envision, it's not linear.
[00:33:06] Stacy Havener: And again, it's, it's like each of those pieces that you said yes to or realize you wanted to say no to get you there, like there's no sort of CEO track, I guess is what I'm saying. That you go in and you're like, okay, yeah, no, I wanna be on this CEO track. Where's that track? It's like, no, actually it's, it's all the various pieces that you did along the way that add up to making you qualified, capable, differentiated in the seat you're, and now.
[00:33:35] Stacy Havener: And I think that's really inspiring for people to realize that you can have a plan, but you also sort of have to be willing to abandon the plan for the longer term vision that might be at play here. So that was That's right. Yeah.
[00:33:48] Natalie Wolfsen: That's right. And you have to, like myself personally, I try to encourage folks all the time, the one thing you don't control in your path is your opportunities.
[00:33:59] Natalie Wolfsen: Mm-hmm. That's the [00:34:00] one part you can control your work. Mm-hmm. You can control your attitude, you can control your education, you can control, you know, your intensity. You can control how much you learn. All those things you can control. But the one thing you can't control, you can also control the environment you're in.
[00:34:14] Natalie Wolfsen: By the way. You get to choose whether you're in the right environment, you're getting the right sponsorship. Ultimately, you cannot control your opportunity. You can't.
[00:34:23] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:34:24] Natalie Wolfsen: And so what, what I try to encourage folks is to help them understand opportunities. Inconvenient. It's never exactly what you want.
[00:34:31] Natalie Wolfsen: Exactly. When you want it Exactly. Presented in the way you want. And so take those opportunities like, you know, again, my mind, you know, getting back to the early days of American Express and of Schwab was CMO. Going into product development took me off that path.
[00:34:48] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:34:49] Natalie Wolfsen: But that was the opportunity I was given.
[00:34:51] Natalie Wolfsen: I wasn't given an opportunity to do a big segment strategy or to work on a brand. The opportunity I was given was to do this incredible, [00:35:00] innovative product development work. And I, I, I believe you should take opportunities. Yeah. And then once the opportunity is yours, that is your opportunity. Don't be distracted by everything that's going on, you know, make the most of your opportunity and eventually you, you succeed enough.
[00:35:16] Natalie Wolfsen: You're familiar with the Matthew Effect? I don't know if Dan No. Break
[00:35:19] Stacy Havener: it down. Yeah.
[00:35:20] Natalie Wolfsen: But the math Matthew Effect is a, is a psychological study and it, it shows what it, what approves is, the more opportunities you get early in your career, the more opportunities you're gonna get the compound over the course of your career.
[00:35:34] Natalie Wolfsen: And so those that make the most out of opportunities early have many, many more opportunities and are much more successful in their careers going forward. So,
[00:35:43] Stacy Havener: fascinating.
[00:35:44] Natalie Wolfsen: Take the opportunities. At a minimum, you'll learn something new. Mm-hmm. Like even, let's, let's just say Schwab, when I was there, the, the mobile trading didn't take off.
[00:35:54] Natalie Wolfsen: Mm-hmm. Like, let's just say it didn't, it didn't work. It didn't take off well. At least I've learned something new.
[00:35:58] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:35:59] Natalie Wolfsen: And I can take all [00:36:00] that product development, project management knowledge back into marketing.
[00:36:03] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:36:03] Natalie Wolfsen: Um, at most you've created a mechanism for success for you and your clients and that's what builds a career.
[00:36:12] Stacy Havener: Fascinating. And I did not know the Matthew effect, but I love that. Thank you for sharing that. And Daniel would be really proud of us right now that we're geeking out. I know. Wouldnt he? He
[00:36:21] Natalie Wolfsen: would.
[00:36:21] Stacy Havener: He's he's gonna love this part. Yeah. Um, the second thing, I didn't lose it 'cause I wrote it down. So how about knowing yourself?
[00:36:28] Stacy Havener: I was like, oh my God, I'm gonna lose this. 'cause she's gonna take me on some amazing, um, new thought, thought thread. The second part that jumped out to me when you were speaking about kind of your seat now at Orion. Is the communication. And again, I'm thinking about that marketing foundation and I wanted you to speak to like, I think with marketing there's a perception that it's all external or that like sales is all external.
[00:36:57] Stacy Havener: And I want you to talk about that [00:37:00] because I feel there's so much internal and the, and the larger the company, the more that sort of skillset has to be, I would think at work. Um, yeah. Can you speak to that?
[00:37:14] Natalie Wolfsen: Yeah. I mean, so a couple things like internal, there could be two ways to interpret that. One is internal to yourself and the other is internal to your, and so I, I believe great marketing is, is both.
[00:37:27] Stacy Havener: Mm.
[00:37:27] Natalie Wolfsen: So if, if. Internal to yourself. If you know that there are certain skills, attributes, um, aspects of you that are going to lead to success in whatever you do. Like, you're really hardworking, you're really disciplined, you're numbers based. Um, you care about clients and people, you know, making sure that that's the you you present in your organization and to your clients and in any experience is extremely important.
[00:37:54] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:37:55] Natalie Wolfsen: And so, you know, I've been told a number of times you gotta market yourself and that sounds very plastic, [00:38:00] but instead you've gotta bring your. You've gotta be confident, we've all gotta be confident in what makes us special and right for that opportunity. Or you're not gonna get it if instead you come to the table with what you're least sure about.
[00:38:14] Natalie Wolfsen: You know, maybe you don't, you're not good at math. Maybe this is the first time you've ever done something. Maybe you don't know if you're exactly ready
[00:38:20] Stacy Havener: mm-hmm.
[00:38:21] Natalie Wolfsen: For the opportunity that's presented to you. And you bring that self to the opportunity, they, they won't pick you. And so there's, there's an internal aspect of, of marketing and then internal to companies.
[00:38:31] Natalie Wolfsen: Absolutely. You know, folks wanna know that they're working at a place that is growing and thriving, where the leadership team has a strategy and that strategy is winning in the marketplace. They want to know that what they do every single day matters.
[00:38:47] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:38:48] Natalie Wolfsen: And makes a difference in their community with their clients.
[00:38:52] Natalie Wolfsen: And, you know. I mean, put really simply, people wanna know that they're on a winning team
[00:38:56] Stacy Havener: mm-hmm.
[00:38:56] Natalie Wolfsen: With a winning game plan. Um, where, you know, [00:39:00] ultimately in my industry, investors and advisors are better off.
[00:39:03] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:39:03] Natalie Wolfsen: And so that isn't just something that every single person in the firm is gonna naturally know.
[00:39:10] Natalie Wolfsen: Like, they're not gonna, you know, if you're, if you're young in your career and, uh, doing PR in the marketing department, or you're answering the phones, uh, or chat feature for a service professional, or, you know, just starting in sales or portfolio management, what you see is actually pretty narrow. And so it's our job as leaders in leadership teams to broaden that out so that everyone in the organization has the benefit of understanding what's your mission, what's your values, what's your strategy?
[00:39:39] Natalie Wolfsen: And what your culture is and how each and every role has a meaningful impact on that.
[00:39:43] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:39:44] Natalie Wolfsen: And so for, for me at Orion now, I make sure that we have clients come to every single one of our all team meetings and we do q and a so people can hear directly from clients how what they're working on every day makes a difference for investors.
[00:39:56] Natalie Wolfsen: I love that we actively publish our strategy and our strategic [00:40:00] pillars and what our key initiatives are and why those are important. Um, and again, it doesn't mean that every single person is working on every single initiative, but they certainly can see what they're working on in the construct of what's important.
[00:40:11] Natalie Wolfsen: You know, we talk about industry dynamics and industry trends. We have a chief strategy officer who puts together like an industry, um, it's kinda like an industry publication, so folks that are interested in learning more can, and I, I just think that's really important and it's, that's marketing. You're I was just gonna say that.
[00:40:27] Stacy Havener: Yes.
[00:40:28] Natalie Wolfsen: It's, it's not marketing in a spin way the way sometimes people interpret it. Yeah. It's marketing in a effective communication and branding way
[00:40:37] Stacy Havener: and sort of breaking down silos and breaking down, not walls in a bad way, but walls in just a way that when you're larger firm, naturally occur. Mm-hmm. You know, you're in your own little world doing your thing and you can lose sight of sort of the bigger picture and for, even though it's kind of cliche, but like the mission and the impact that you're having, the, when you talked about [00:41:00] bringing clients to all your, your all team meetings, first of all, what a fantastic idea and second of all I was like, what?
[00:41:05] Stacy Havener: Like a classic marketer move right there. I mean, so good, so powerful. Because one of the things I found challenging personally in financial services was to find meaning in it. If that makes sense, because you kind of get here and it's all money and it's like a lot of successful people making more money.
[00:41:30] Stacy Havener: And I sort of had this moment where I was like, what am I doing? Like, am I, you know, it's, it was hard for me to square.
[00:41:39] Natalie Wolfsen: You know, it's so interesting. One of the reasons I've stayed in financial services my whole career is just first principles on paper.
[00:41:46] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:41:47] Natalie Wolfsen: It's so important. I mean, other than health and family and for those of those folks who are religious, it's the most important thing in anyone's life because it, it [00:42:00] powers all those other things that are important to you.
[00:42:02] Natalie Wolfsen: And you're right about financial services. It's all about money and instruments and flows and transactions and things. Yeah. That are just not inspiring. At the end of all of that though is investors' dreams. Yeah.
[00:42:16] And
[00:42:16] Natalie Wolfsen: I try very hard in my own like day-to-day, and then also within our culture at Orion to just very much focus on that, that, you know, at, at the end of every account is somebody's kids' education or somebody's retirement.
[00:42:32] Natalie Wolfsen: Mm-hmm. Even when you're thinking about things that are really abstract, like let's just private equity.
[00:42:36] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:42:37] Natalie Wolfsen: You know, the firm that, the entities that invest in private equity, they're foundations and endowments and, you know, at, at the other end of those foundations and endowments and, you know, public pension plans or firemen and nurses mm-hmm.
[00:42:51] Natalie Wolfsen: And teachers and churches. And so with everything I wanna do inside Orion and everything we [00:43:00] wanna do for the industry is those outcomes. You, you want more people to retire, you want them to be certain of their wealth. You want them to be able to enjoy, you know, their money with their families. And, and that's what we do in financial services.
[00:43:14] Natalie Wolfsen: And whether you're building an ETF or you are building a mobile trading platform, or right now I'm, you know, I'm building platforms for financial, uh, financial professionals to use to serve their clients technology and wealth at Orion. The better we do with that, the more folks can have that comfort mm-hmm.
[00:43:34] Natalie Wolfsen: And achieve their goals, the better off we all are. Yeah. And so when I was building Schwab's ETFs, I thought about that.
[00:43:40] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:43:41] Natalie Wolfsen: You know, I thought about what does the pricing need to be so more people can be in this? Let's make sure the investment is really effective and tracks in the way we want it to.
[00:43:48] Natalie Wolfsen: You know, today as we're building our AI platforms, you know, for advisors to use so that they can multiply themselves, they can force multiply. Mm-hmm. They can, instead of only being able to serve 150 [00:44:00] more high net worth people, you know, with AI as a tool in their arsenal, they can maybe serve 500, a thousand people at the same level of care.
[00:44:09] Natalie Wolfsen: Making sure that those tools are built in a way that the, the quality is really high in the outcomes are achieved is always at the forefront of my mind.
[00:44:18] Stacy Havener: Thank you for doing that, because even for me, as someone who's been in this industry for decades, we need those reminders sometimes because you can get like caught up in the weeds and sort of forget, you know, even like the vision of this pilot, there are people here mm-hmm.
[00:44:34] Stacy Havener: Running the companies and working in the companies, and investing in the products that the companies are creating and all the stuff that you just broke down, which I thought was super inspiring. I wanna, this is where I wanna take the conversation next, which is to the vision of what you're building at Orion.
[00:44:49] Stacy Havener: And you just gave us a great feel for that, but I want to also just. Really thank you for that internal marketing riff [00:45:00] because I, well, I loved it. And also I think we all need to hear that too. Um, I'm working on a framework right now that I'm delivering to a $50 billion asset management firm. I'm doing this like keynote workshop and on the visibility effect.
[00:45:18] Stacy Havener: And one of the things that you said, I was like, oh my gosh, this is like meant to be, because I'm literally working on this right now, kind of unpacking it, which is owning your story, right? And your value showing that to other people. This is exactly what you just described. And the big one is claiming it, taking up the space and somehow working through.
[00:45:44] Stacy Havener: The natural things that happen there, which is, it feels braggy, it feels like self-serving and self-centered, and we don't wanna do that. If we were a good person, we wouldn't do that. We wouldn't, we would, you know, we would just trust that people would see us. And the [00:46:00] reality is that you do have to claim that space.
[00:46:02] Stacy Havener: And I just loved that breakdown that, that you gave right there, Natalie. Thank you for that.
[00:46:08] Natalie Wolfsen: Absolutely.
[00:46:09] Stacy Havener: Um, okay, so let's talk about this vision. So you're, you're here, you've given us, you know, kind of snippets of what's happening. But, you know, one of the things, I'm just gonna be so honest here because maybe other people feel this way with companies like Orion.
[00:46:24] Stacy Havener: Sometimes I'm like, I don't know what you do. Like, I know it's important and I love the people and I know it's between, you know, sort of investment and advice, but like, can you just answer that in case other people are, are like me? It's like they're doing something cool. I don't exactly know what it is.
[00:46:44] Natalie Wolfsen: Absolutely. So at Orion, we provide a complete ecosystem of wealth and technology solutions that are mission critical for financial advisors to serve their clients. And these technology and wealth [00:47:00] solutions are geared at making sure that the entire interaction between the advisor and the client and the enterprise that serves the advisor
[00:47:09] Stacy Havener: mm-hmm.
[00:47:09] Natalie Wolfsen: Um, can be, can be served in an effective and integrated way. And so the best way to think about this is if you're an investor and you come into an advisor's business, the advisor needs to. Understand who you are mm-hmm. And what you need. And we have tools, technology, resources, um, behavioral and also economic to help the financial advisor do that at scale.
[00:47:30] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:47:31] Natalie Wolfsen: Then they need to understand your existing holdings. Your, you know, not only your goals and dreams, but also your existing assets and your existing holdings. We have tools and technology to audit your existing holdings and help you understand how they're aligned with your goals and dreams. Then you need to.
[00:47:47] Natalie Wolfsen: Create a plan with the financial advisor and in that plan is what you currently have that we've accounted for, and then what you hope to achieve in your future.
[00:47:57] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:47:57] Natalie Wolfsen: Um, and so we have financial planning [00:48:00] tools and again, best practices, resources, communications to help advisors build the financial plans.
[00:48:06] Natalie Wolfsen: And then after you do the financial plan, you need to move money into the financial relationship that you have with the financial advisor. So we have all sorts of custodial integrations so that you can move the money easily. We have, you know, big operations teams so that you can onboard into Orion effectively.
[00:48:24] Natalie Wolfsen: After that, the portfolios need to be implemented. And so you need investment solutions. Hmm. Um, and a big platform of investment solutions so that you can implement those portfolios really effectively and efficiently. And Orion, we have relationship with thousands of different asset managers. We have our own proprietary investment solutions and a whole roster of every type of investment solution you can want.
[00:48:49] Natalie Wolfsen: And. Sometimes advisors want us to trade those solutions for them. Sometimes they wanna do it themselves. Sometimes they want turnkey solutions. Other times they wanna, uh, construct them on their own. You can do [00:49:00] all of that at Orion. Another part of optimal implementation is actually keeping in mind tax.
[00:49:05] Natalie Wolfsen: And so Orion has tax solutions so that if you wanna tax overlay the portfolios that aren't in retirement accounts, you can do that. If you wanna, if the, the investor that you're serving has needs around concentrated positions, or they have needs in that they don't wanna invest in certain segments of certain companies, we have ways to customize those portfolios at scale to meet those needs.
[00:49:28] Natalie Wolfsen: And then once the portfolios are implemented, the financial advisor and the client need the reporting and the tools to consistently understand what's going on with the portfolios relative to goals. You need to understand your performance. Since we have the portfolio accounting and reporting tools, that financial advisor needs to have that conversation with the client.
[00:49:46] Natalie Wolfsen: The financial advisor also needs to be compliant with regulations, so we have compliance tools and compliance support for the financial advisors, and then it kind of all cycles back and so. At Orion, we are that holistic [00:50:00] platform that a financial advisor needs to serve their investor. And at each stage of that cycle that I mentioned, not only does Orion offer solutions, but we integrate with hundreds of providers so that the financial advisor and the investor don't need to choose, they don't need to choose between Orion and the, you know, the investment offering that they are really excited about.
[00:50:21] Natalie Wolfsen: They don't need to choose between Orion. If they've maybe, uh, selected another risk management software, they can do all of it at Orion and they can do it in an integrated way to save them time and effort. And then the last thing I'll just say, in ongoing relationship management with your client, there's a ton of ongoing communications that you need.
[00:50:40] Natalie Wolfsen: Mm-hmm. And so at Orion, we also offer a CRM system, Redtail, that allows advisors and their clients to have effective, efficient, not only workflows, but also communications. And so. The other way I describe Orion is if you think about sort of the traditional wirehouse brokerage model, you walk into work every day [00:51:00] and you open up your desktop.
[00:51:01] Natalie Wolfsen: And that desktop has a set of technology that you need to serve your clients and a set of investments that you can select from to implement whatever plan you have for your clients. And it's part of working for that wirehouse or that bank. Um, at Orion we deliver the same type of thing, um, in a much more flexible and, and a way where there's much more choice for the financial advisor to independent advisors and the companies that serve them.
[00:51:26] Stacy Havener: Yeah, that, that last bit is key, I think, isn't it? Because it's sort of like. When you decide if you're an advisor, you wanna be an entrepreneur, and you're like, yes, because I think the world needs another advisor and I'm gonna do it slightly differently, or I'm gonna serve a different niche or segment.
[00:51:44] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm. And then you get out there and you go, oh my gosh, there's so much quote stuff that I have to deal with that I, that was taken care of for me when I was at, you know, this big shop over here, this wirehouse over there. So that fact [00:52:00] that you're offering these services to independent advisors, I think you to solve a big pain point for them.
[00:52:07] Stacy Havener: I, I'm curious if I say that, I'm saying this not because I believe it, but I'm curious to how you react to it, which is, okay, so you're a back office solution. Is that a yes or is it more than that?
[00:52:22] Natalie Wolfsen: It's a yes but incomplete. So we do offer back, back office support for financial advisors, and then we also offer mid-office and front office support.
[00:52:31] Natalie Wolfsen: Okay. So
[00:52:32] Stacy Havener: tell, tell me what you mean by that.
[00:52:34] Natalie Wolfsen: So, as an example, um, we, as I said, we offer a, a lineup of investment solutions mm-hmm. That advisors can choose between to implement their portfolios. Sometimes financial advisors want an expert to create those portfolios on their behalf. Mm-hmm. At Orion we can do that.
[00:52:53] Natalie Wolfsen: Other times advisors don't wanna trade those portfolios. At Orion, we can do that sometimes [00:53:00] advisors would like our help in having a conversation about the behavioral aspects of investing. That they're, that, you know, they see a client that's really struggling, you know, in one aspect of their financial life.
[00:53:11] Natalie Wolfsen: So they can bring in Daniel Crosby or Naomi Wynn and we can provide those services to the, to the advisor. You know, the communications when, when. Times of market volatility or when something unexpected happens, like what happened with this week. Um, we provide all sorts of understanding of what a. What happened in the market and what it could mean for client portfolios.
[00:53:34] Natalie Wolfsen: And we deliver that to financial advisors for their education. And sometimes they, they share that with their investors in technology. We aren't just deep back office systems. Sometimes our tools are actually the investor portal that the clients investor sees when they wanna monitor their systems. Our, our technology could be the financial plan that the investor interacts with just to, you know, maybe, um, do some scenario analysis with their advisor [00:54:00] about the time of their retirement or how much risk they're willing to take, or, you know, what they wanna do, uh, in the years leading up to retirement or when they're in retirement.
[00:54:09] Natalie Wolfsen: You know, our tools are client facing in that way. Uh, you know, same thing is true with our reporting. The reports we generate and the proposals we generate, those are delivered to the investor. And so at every, at every stage. Of the advisor's business. Orion can help and we try to do it in a very integrated and client friendly way.
[00:54:29] Natalie Wolfsen: Um, friendly to the investor and the advisor.
[00:54:32] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:54:32] Natalie Wolfsen: So that the advisor doesn't have to do that. Yeah. They don't have to integrate their tech, they don't have to, you know, build their client experience. And then for the larger enterprises we serve, we also, you know, make sure that we're helpful with m and a and that we onboard their clients effectively and so that we're helping the enterprises grow inorganically as well as organically.
[00:54:52] Natalie Wolfsen: Um, we plug in to the parts of the client experience that maybe that Enterprise wants to own and they need other services from [00:55:00] Orion. Um, and again, because we're flexible in our data and our backend. We don't have any issues. If an enterprise wants to own big pieces of their client experience, we can, we can help inform the pieces that the enterprise owns and then we can, uh, bolt on Orion services to that too.
[00:55:16] Stacy Havener: Thank you for clarifying that. 'cause I, I mean, I knew that it was more than back office, but I do think there's a perception that it is back office and I wanted to be sure that we said No. No, there's a lot of client facing things and front office things that happen as well. Okay. I'm conscious of time.
[00:55:36] Stacy Havener: This has been such a fantastic conversation. Can I ask you a few closing questions before we hop?
[00:55:43] Natalie Wolfsen: Absolutely.
[00:55:43] Stacy Havener: Okay. Just a couple kind of fast fire, sort of beyond the bio type of questions. Um, what book inspires you? And it could be, it doesn't have to be a business book, could be any book.
[00:55:57] Natalie Wolfsen: I know why the Cage bird sings
[00:55:59] Stacy Havener: Ooh, [00:56:00]
[00:56:00] Natalie Wolfsen: really inspires me and it inspires me for two reasons.
[00:56:03] Natalie Wolfsen: One, it's just such an incredible story of resilience and perspective. And then also it's just beautifully written. It's
[00:56:12] Stacy Havener: beautiful
[00:56:12] Natalie Wolfsen: like it's poem and it's incredible and every word is so perfectly placed. Um, I just love it when not only is what you're reading amazing, but the craft of putting it together mm
[00:56:26] Stacy Havener: um,
[00:56:27] Natalie Wolfsen: is just inspiring to see that kind of just technical strength and then beau beautiful outcomes.
[00:56:34] Stacy Havener: Ah, uh, it's very rare. I have someone who really appreciates the nice poetic structure of, of text, so that just warms my heart. Okay. We're flipping from books to places now. You've lived both coast, you've traveled extensively. What place inspires you?
[00:56:55] Natalie Wolfsen: Any mountain? Hmm. So I, I love to be on the trail and in the [00:57:00] mountains.
[00:57:00] Natalie Wolfsen: Um, north Cascades National Park, uh, the Sierra Nevada in California, you know, Patagonia, the Alps. I mean, I just love the mountains. It's just, they're just beautiful.
[00:57:13] Stacy Havener: What is it about them?
[00:57:14] Natalie Wolfsen: I think it's that they're so big
[00:57:16] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:57:17] Natalie Wolfsen: And so diverse. Mm-hmm. And when you're on a trail, it's quiet and you can enjoy nature and really think,
[00:57:24] Stacy Havener: yeah.
[00:57:25] Stacy Havener: So well said. Okay. Now maybe it's at Ascent or one of your conferences, you're gonna take the stage. I mean, normally I have to paint a picture here, but you actually do take stages quite frequently. And so let's say like you carte blanche, you get to pick whatever song, your hype up song, your walkout anthem, what's it gonna be?
[00:57:44] Stacy Havener: Or you could say like, when I'm in my car and I'm going to a meeting. And it's a big meeting. This, maybe that's a better one for you because it's sort of like your own space and nobody hears this song except you,
[00:57:58] Natalie Wolfsen: uh, probably one way or [00:58:00] another by Blondie.
[00:58:01] Stacy Havener: Ooh.
[00:58:02] Natalie Wolfsen: Because I just, I think I, I often think to myself, you know, I'm gonna find a way.
[00:58:08] Natalie Wolfsen: Mm. I'm gonna find a way to do great things. And I know, I know what she's saying, and that song is a little different, but
[00:58:13] Stacy Havener: mm-hmm.
[00:58:14] Natalie Wolfsen: You know, if, if, if you are relentless, which by the way is the theme of ascent this year, if you're relentless and you think something is so important, it, it must happen. And you're willing to explore all outcomes, um, and work really hard.
[00:58:27] Natalie Wolfsen: Um, I think great things happen. And so probably one way or another,
[00:58:31] Stacy Havener: relentless is a great theme.
[00:58:35] Natalie Wolfsen: Yeah.
[00:58:35] Stacy Havener: What a vibe. Yes. I, I love that. Okay. What profession, other than your own, would you like to attempt.
[00:58:44] Natalie Wolfsen: Uh, so Park Ranger.
[00:58:47] Stacy Havener: Oh, brilliant.
[00:58:48] Natalie Wolfsen: I would love to be a park ranger. I just think being outside all the time on the trail in the mountains just sounds like heaven.
[00:58:54] Stacy Havener: I can totally see that. I can see that for you. This is gonna be an interesting one. What [00:59:00] profession would you not like to do?
[00:59:02] Natalie Wolfsen: Uh, I, you know, it's so funny, I've had a lot of jobs, um, you know, in my career that, you know, like I worked in a fish cannery. I was a maid. Like I've had a lot of jobs. And so I think that there's something you can learn from every job.
[00:59:16] Natalie Wolfsen: And I also think that there's just benefit in doing great work, like just doing great work. There's a certain, like joy you get out of it. Mm-hmm. Regardless of what it is. You know, even, even if you're, you know, working with fish or, um, you're making beds or whatever it is, and picking fruit, like all things I've done.
[00:59:36] Natalie Wolfsen: Um, so I, I don't know. I, I don't, I don't approach life that way. That there's a job I don't want. It's like, okay, I've got this job. What am I gonna do to make it awesome?
[00:59:44] Stacy Havener: I lo this is my favorite answer to this question ever. Probably because that's how I would answer the question too. And we need to have like a separate podcast to talk about this because I wonder why we're that way and, [01:00:00] and I go back to something you said earlier, which was that you had to pay your way through school, as did I.
[01:00:05] Stacy Havener: And so I wonder if there's something about. Like, there's nowhere I couldn't live. There's no job that I, you know, I could do any job and find joy and find a way to be good at it. And I wonder where we get that.
[01:00:20] Natalie Wolfsen: I, I don't know. All I know is that, you know, there's been jobs I've enjoyed more than other jobs.
[01:00:25] Natalie Wolfsen: Um, and there's certainly, yeah, there's certainly been times where I've chosen to not do that job anymore and do another, but gosh, if, you know, if that's what you're doing, do it.
[01:00:35] Stacy Havener: Yeah. Be all in.
[01:00:36] Natalie Wolfsen: Yeah, exactly.
[01:00:38] Stacy Havener: Yeah. God. So good. Natalie. All right. Last question, and this is a long time away, Hopely from where we, where we are right now, but what do you want people to say about you after you've retired or left the industry?
[01:00:53] Natalie Wolfsen: Uh, probably two things, two somewhat related things. I, I really, first of all, hope people say that the industry is [01:01:00] better off because of the work I did and, uh, what I did in the industry. And that, that that's something people can see.
[01:01:06] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[01:01:06] Natalie Wolfsen: Um, and by people, I mean investors and advisors too. 'cause I think advisors do great work for investors.
[01:01:13] Natalie Wolfsen: Mm-hmm. So investors and advisors. And then I also hope that the people who spent valuable career time working with me feel like they learned a lot. Um, so one sort of internal for the team and then the other is, um, is for the industry.
[01:01:28] Stacy Havener: Well, I think people are already saying that and I think people who listen to this podcast episode are going to say it as well.
[01:01:35] Stacy Havener: I have learned many amazing things in this conversation about you and our industry. And honestly, like you've said, some things that really tapped into my own. Story and myself. So thank you very much, Natalie, for being here. It has really been a pleasure.
[01:01:54] Natalie Wolfsen: Thank you so much for having me. I, I've really enjoyed it and really keep doing it.
[01:01:58] Natalie Wolfsen: This is a great thing to do for the [01:02:00] industry.
[01:02:00] Stacy Havener: Awesome. Thank you so much. Let's be real. No one wakes up and says, I can't wait to build some operational infrastructure today. You are here to manage money, to build something that lights you up, not chase down reports across five systems and 15 service providers.
[01:02:18] Stacy Havener: That's where Ultimas Fund Solutions comes in there. Your ops dream team, consolidating all your middle and back office chaos into one clean, scalable setup. Registered funds, private funds, SMAs, all integrated. One team, one tech platform, one rock solid source of data. But here's the real differentiator service.
[01:02:45] Stacy Havener: I know that Fund in a box sounds convenient. It's also a box. Know what? You can't put in a box? A human who picks up the phone when you call and need help. Real life people who know your name and your fund, and they care [01:03:00] about getting it right. Ultimas was built on people doing business with people. You get institutional strength combined with boutique level service without getting stuck in a phone tree of doom.
[01:03:13] Stacy Havener: If you're ready to simplify scale and start working with a team that feels like an extension of yours, check out billion dollar backstory.com/ultimas. That's U-L-T-I-M-U-S. You've got the investment strategy, the vision, the track record. Now it's time to upgrade the engine behind it all with ultimas.
[01:03:39] Stacy Havener: This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions. The information is not an offer, solicitation, or recommendation of any of the funds, services, or products, or to adopt any investment strategy. Investment values may fluctuate and past performance is not a guide to future performance.
[01:03:58] Stacy Havener: All opinions expressed by [01:04:00] guests on the show are solely their own opinion and do not necessarily reflect those at their firm. Manager's appearance on the show does not constitute an endorsement by Stacey Haven or Haven or Capital Partners.
Resources
