Episode 140: From the other side of the bond desk to $270M AUM. Meet Sweta Singh, Co-Founder of City Different Investments.
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What if the secret to building a firm people know, like, and trust wasn’t a slicker pitch deck… or a better track record?
What if it was the audacity to just be yourself?
Sweta Singh didn't wonder. She just built it.
Before she was a founder, she was on the other side of the desk entirely, issuing bonds for the State of New York, watching how public money moves through communities, hospitals, schools, and retirement funds. Most portfolio managers never see that side. Sweta did. And she never forgot it.
Twenty-five years later — Wellington, Income Research, Thornburg — she took the leap. City Different is what happened next.
In this episode, Stacy Havener sits down with Sweta to talk boutique building, muni bonds, and why being "boring" in the right part of the portfolio is actually the goal.
Listen in to hear:
Sweta’s backstory – From India to full scholarship to Albany bond issuer
How she got hooked on finance (and why the policy/markets/human behavior collision lit her up)
What issuing bonds before managing them taught her about how muni debt connects to real voters, real communities, and real consequences
The City Different origin story: why the name is a love letter to Santa Fe (and a reminder to stay different)
More about Sweta Singh:
Sweta Singh is a fixed-income portfolio manager and co-founder of City Different Investments, with more than 25 years of industry experience. Her desire to constantly learn and adapt has been her greatest gift, and the thread that connects every chapter of her career.
After immigrating to the U.S. and earning degrees from the University of Massachusetts (summa cum laude), the University of Texas at Austin, where she was awarded the Barbara Jordan Fellowship, and SUNY, she began her career in New York State's Debt Division, learning every aspect of bond issuance from the ground up.
That other-side-of-the-desk foundation carried her through roles at Wellington Management, Income Research and Management, Breckinridge Capital Advisors, Thornburg Investment Management, and Wilkins Investment Counsel, building expertise across municipal bonds, corporate credit, agencies, and treasuries along the way.
Sweta believes investing is dynamic and that its future belongs to the best of both human and machine. It's a belief she brings to life every day at City Different Investments.
Resources Mentioned in This Episode:
Books
Song
TRANSCRIPT
Below is an AI-generated transcript and therefore it may contain errors.
[00:00:00] Stacy Havener: What if the secret to building a firm, people know, like, and trust wasn't a fancier pitch deck or a better track record, but the bravery to just be yourself. Today's guest grew up in India where curiosity and community and education where the currency of her childhood. She came to the US on a full scholarship and stumbled into finance, not because she thought it was glamorous, but because the collision of public policy, human behavior, and real world consequences lit her uping of city different investments didn't start on Wall Street.
[00:00:41] Stacy Havener: She began at a New York State Fellowship issuing bonds in Albany, but that behind the scenes access to seeing how public money actually moves through communities gave her something. Most portfolio managers never get perspective from the other side. The [00:01:00] bond desk. After 25 years in the industry working for big shops like Wellington and Thornburg, she landed at a few founder led firms, and that lit a fire she just couldn't ignore.
[00:01:12] Stacy Havener: Eventually, she took the leap and with some Thornburg colleagues became a co-founder herself. City different is her founder journey a bet that radical transparency, direct access to the actual humans running your money. And yes, a healthy love of muni bonds can build something real and lasting. Meet my friend.
[00:01:40] Stacy Havener: Hey, my name is Stacey Er. I'm obsessed with startups, stories, and sales. Storytelling has fueled my success as a female founder in the Toughest Boys Club, wall Street, I've raised over 8 billion that has led to 30 billion in follow-on assets for investment boutiques. You could say against the [00:02:00] odds. Yeah, understatement.
[00:02:03] Stacy Havener: I share stories of the people behind the portfolios while teaching you how to use story to shape outcomes. It's real talk here. Money, authenticity, growth, setbacks, sales and marketing are all topics we discuss. Think of this as the capital raising class you wish you had in college mixed with happy hour.
[00:02:25] Stacy Havener: Pull up a seat, grab your notebook, and get ready to be inspired and challenged while you learn. This is the Billion Dollar Backstory podcast.
[00:02:39] Stacy Havener: Wouldn't it be cool if you could diversify your investor base and add some non-US investors? Europe could be fun, or Latin America, maybe Antarctica. Hey, icebergs aren't really my jam, but you never know. You've only got one problem. How the heck do you do that? Fair question, but maybe this is a [00:03:00] who not how thing.
[00:03:01] Stacy Havener: Meet my friends at Gem Cap. Not only do they handle all the back office stuff, the how. They'll also solve the who in your distribution conundrum. They have an incredible network of distribution partners who can help you sell the thing. Once you've built the thing. And Gem Cap won't just help you launch globally.
[00:03:22] Stacy Havener: They'll tell you where to go and maybe more importantly, where not to go. Saving you time, money, and annoying headaches. Want to find out if your investment firm is ready to go global? Visit billion dollar backstory.com/gem cap, G-E-M-C-A-P. We've created a quick quiz that'll help you figure out if you're ready to expand beyond the US and side note, it's pretty fun too.
[00:03:51] Stacy Havener: Get your firm in front of the right investors in the right places with Gem cap. Take the quiz and get more [00:04:00] info@billiondollarbackstory.com slash gem cap GEMC.
[00:04:11] Stacy Havener: Okay, this is a bit of an old home week situation on the Billion Dollar Backstory podcast because today I am so thrilled to have my friend and former Clienting from Citi Different in the podcast studio today. Thank you so much for being here.
[00:04:30] Sweta Singh: Thank you for having me Stacy.
[00:04:32] Stacy Havener: So, as I said to you in the green room, we are gonna catch up proper ketchup 'cause it's been a minute.
[00:04:38] Stacy Havener: And I know you have a cup of tea. I have a glass of water, so I'm failing. Um, but we are gonna catch up and you're gonna tell me everything that's going on. But before we do that, I would love to go back to your story and your journey in this industry, especially given that it's international women's.[00:05:00]
[00:05:01] Stacy Havener: This month of March. So tell us, did you always know that you wanted to be a fund manager? Was that your dream as a kid?
[00:05:08] Sweta Singh: Sure. Who grow up with that dream? And it's funny you said International Woman's Month. I of those international, yes you
[00:05:16] Stacy Havener: are.
[00:05:20] Sweta Singh: I think I'm what they would call a late bloomer,
[00:05:25] Stacy Havener: also all of us. Yeah.
[00:05:29] Sweta Singh: And I wouldn't trade my childhood for anything. I think my childhood was happy. It was punctuated by love of food.
[00:05:39] Stacy Havener: Love of food, Yahoo food,
[00:05:41] Sweta Singh: not portfolio management.
[00:05:44] Stacy Havener: I absolutely adore that.
[00:05:47] Sweta Singh: And lots and lots of curiosity. So I grew up in India and growing up in India, I was surrounded by conversations about family, community, and making the best of [00:06:00] every opportunity.
[00:06:00] Sweta Singh: And frankly, you know, in my simple mind that I didn't even think of.
[00:06:08] Sweta Singh: You know, God knows a lot of things didn't come easy to me, but school came easy.
[00:06:14] Stacy Havener: Mm. Mm-hmm.
[00:06:16] Sweta Singh: But, you know, it was really anchored in curiosity though, I was a very curious kid, but I never did take school seriously. But I took my curiosity very seriously. Ooh,
[00:06:31] Stacy Havener: I love that actually. Tell me more about that.
[00:06:34] Stacy Havener: Yeah, keep going.
[00:06:36] Sweta Singh: But it didn't really click till I came to the us came to University of Texas at Austin, um, a full scholarship. And it was, um, in studying economics and political science that I realized where the financial markets, human behavior, public policy, real world consequences collide. [00:07:00] That is so exciting.
[00:07:01] Sweta Singh: And that's where I was hoped. Hmm.
[00:07:04] Stacy Havener: So wait, I have to go back to the food thing because, because you know what's interesting about that? 'cause I love food too, but what's really interesting about that is, and I've never been to India, so I am sort of trying to put myself in your shoes, but I'm just thinking about my Italian family, like food brought everyone together.
[00:07:25] Stacy Havener: Food had that way of, of bringing people together to sit, break bread, insert whatever. Yes. Sort of, you know, statement cliche you want, but that's very interesting. So I wanna keep that thread handy. The reason I'm coming back to it is because typically when we do backstory work, that initial passion sort of comes back around.
[00:07:49] Stacy Havener: So I'm planting that seed. I don't know, this is what's great about the way that we do this podcast. Like, I don't know where this is gonna go, but I, I don't want us to lose that. Okay. So now you're here in the us [00:08:00] I don't know if the food is nearly as good, but, we'll, we'll, we'll just, you know, we'll move past it.
[00:08:04] Stacy Havener: But you're studying political science and economics and you still at this point haven't caught the bug for finance, or have you
[00:08:12] Sweta Singh: No. In one of these classes. Uh, like I said, that's, you know, when public policy, finance, real world consequences that. And that was the hook that brought me into, uh, finance. And you know, the wonderful thing about youth is you dunno what you dunno.
[00:08:34] Stacy Havener: Yeah. Yes.
[00:08:36] Sweta Singh: So you walk into doors now that I have a teenager, you walk into doors thinking you know it all. And the truth is you want nothing.
[00:08:45] Stacy Havener: But you're not afraid. You're not afraid. You're not afraid because you don't know that you should be. And I'm using air quotes on should, right? Yes. So there's something really awesome about that point in time because even though you have this bravado [00:09:00] of like, I know everything.
[00:09:01] Stacy Havener: Yeah. It also gives you the confidence to walk through doors that later on maybe we wouldn't have done because we would've said, we don't belong here.
[00:09:10] Sweta Singh: And that thread has not yet left me.
[00:09:14] Stacy Havener: Alright. We're gonna talk about that. So, okay. So keep going with your story. Sorry, I'm loving it. So I keep interjecting.
[00:09:20] Stacy Havener: Bad podcast host.
[00:09:22] Sweta Singh: No, not at all. Um, so after school, I want this fellowship to go work for New York State. It was named after Governor Carey, who was a governor of New York during the seventies, sort of cleaned the fiscal situation for New York. So I took that fellowship that put me in the seat of an issuer, understanding how municipalities work, how, how community back to that community piece of how public markets impact the constituents, which are voters like you and I.
[00:09:56] Sweta Singh: Right? So I came to [00:10:00] municipal finance and fixed income market later on in my life, but I didn't choose that Wall Street job. I chose this fellowship that put me, you know, in a more glamorized finance world, in a boring public issuer. Public finance, public sector seat. And it was, that, again, was lost on me.
[00:10:25] Sweta Singh: The value, you know, how valuable that opportunity was. I didn't even understand that well into my thirties and forties, but that was my first job, which was issuing bonds for the state of New York,
[00:10:38] Stacy Havener: New York. So, okay, I'm gonna ask a really silly question, but there's no such thing as a silly question. And because we're friends, I'm gonna ask this.
[00:10:45] Stacy Havener: Can you please tell what is a fellowship? What does that actually mean? I mean, it sounds very fancy. Like what Is that Not
[00:10:53] Sweta Singh: fancy at all?
[00:10:53] Stacy Havener: Okay.
[00:10:53] Sweta Singh: Not fancy at all. I remember, uh, you graduate in April, I remember. Uh, [00:11:00] or in May, and I remember in March my mother calling me and saying, have you found a job yet?
[00:11:07] Stacy Havener: Okay, so talk just like, what is a fellowship? Pretend we're back there and I'm like, Hey, I'm out. A like, I'm, what does this fellowship think?
[00:11:14] Sweta Singh: So for schools, this was a fellowship that New York State had designed. Yeah. And hindsight was brilliant to give young people, young students coming outta school an experience whereby you would get an insight into how the State of New York issues that you, I got the opportunity to rotate through different issuers like das, which issues that for Storm Memorial Kettering, uh, NYU to New York State throughway.
[00:11:48] Sweta Singh: So this was designed pretty much by, you know, public sector, uh, state of New York in this example named after Governor Carey. But to give a young person an [00:12:00] experience of public sector work.
[00:12:03] Stacy Havener: Amazing. Okay. So like almost like a scholarship type thing? Yes, yes,
[00:12:08] Sweta Singh: yes. But
[00:12:09] Stacy Havener: more in,
[00:12:10] Sweta Singh: yeah,
[00:12:10] Stacy Havener: like, not school, but after post school tracking.
[00:12:13] Stacy Havener: Post
[00:12:14] Sweta Singh: school.
[00:12:14] Stacy Havener: Okay. Post
[00:12:14] Sweta Singh: school. Think of it as a long two year internship.
[00:12:18] Stacy Havener: Got it. Amazing. Okay. Alright, so now I'm tracking with you. So you're doing this work, it must have been super interesting a, but how does it lead you to go from sort of public policy work to sort of public markets and actually getting into the capital markets?
[00:12:35] Sweta Singh: So this was in Albany. Uh, home for me is Boston, where I still live and work in Boston. I was looking for jobs in Boston. After my two year fellowship was coming up. I ended up at a firm called Wellington Management. This is in oh 5, 0 6. And over the years, my, my joke is that I've taken this same train [00:13:00] stop, which is downtown crossing in Boston, but worked at a bunch of different firms in that neighborhood.
[00:13:08] Sweta Singh: So Wellington, income Research and Management, Breckenridge Capital. Oh,
[00:13:13] Stacy Havener: yes.
[00:13:14] Sweta Singh: And you know what's exciting is in two of these firms, I got the front row seat to working with the founder. Oh.
[00:13:23] Stacy Havener: And you come to
[00:13:24] Sweta Singh: this later. That's.
[00:13:28] Stacy Havener: Fascinating. Okay. And so what was it like to take this fellowship experience and also just your educational training and move to another side of the desk?
[00:13:38] Stacy Havener: Not, not to use that phrase, but now you're kind of in a totally different role and talk about that. Like how was it to pull those threads and connect them and what, obviously you stayed. Tell us more.
[00:13:51] Sweta Singh: You know, I, I love the investment management industry. This is where I've grown up. This is my home in the beginning as a young [00:14:00] person.
[00:14:00] Sweta Singh: For me, you know, what I saw was process, people performance.
[00:14:06] Stacy Havener: Perform in that order.
[00:14:08] Sweta Singh: Yep. In that order. And that, that's great training for someone really young, it didn't register. My background of coming from public policy, coming from an issuers background, didn't really register. Like I said, it took a while to click.
[00:14:24] Stacy Havener: Yeah. I
[00:14:26] Sweta Singh: think, you know, as investors, we are so focused on the math part of it, getting the math right, getting our standard deviation, mean variance, throw all statistic words out there, that part, right?
[00:14:39] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:39] Sweta Singh: And as a young person, you really wanna prove yourself. Your analysis has to be good, your ideas have to be great.
[00:14:47] Sweta Singh: So mm-hmm. Honestly, for the first 10 years of my career, that is what consumed me. Mm-hmm. My analysis has to be the best. My ideas have to make money [00:15:00] for, for end clients. Yeah. And of course, of course that has to do that, but it wasn't until working at firms led by founders mm-hmm. And getting a front row seat to their grit, to their passion, and frankly to their stubbornness.
[00:15:20] Stacy Havener: And what did that did that, and you said it lit a spark for you. So what did that did? Did that switch that process? People performance? Yes.
[00:15:27] Sweta Singh: It flipped.
[00:15:27] Stacy Havener: It flipped.
[00:15:29] Sweta Singh: It flipped. And, and you never know when those switches for, for you in life. Yeah. But you know, it, you know, I'm a very feeling person. And whether it was at ut when, you know, in those classrooms talking about central banks and the big impact it has on people's life, that clicked being in founder led firms, seeing the passion
[00:15:52] Stacy Havener: mm-hmm.
[00:15:52] Sweta Singh: And not being led by process people performance. There is something very stodgy and [00:16:00] performative about that.
[00:16:00] Stacy Havener: Yes, yes, yes.
[00:16:02] Sweta Singh: Um, so that, that sort of led the bug of entrepreneurship for me.
[00:16:08] Stacy Havener: And you know what's interesting too is that of all the asset classes, you know, you're a specialist in Munis.
[00:16:17] Sweta Singh: Yes.
[00:16:18] Stacy Havener: And that.
[00:16:19] Stacy Havener: You know, and I say this with peace and love because I love what you do, but of all the parts of the market, that's not the one that you would think. There's like a ton of passion and, and, and fire and sparks being lit. But I want you to respond to that because actually if you really step back and think about what's happening in that market and what's on the ends of that market, you can see where that passion and the public policy, I see that threat.
[00:16:46] Stacy Havener: I see it.
[00:16:47] Sweta Singh: You know, I can, I can just speak to myself and my journey, and for me, I have always chosen curiosity over prestige.
[00:16:55] Stacy Havener: Mm.
[00:16:57] Sweta Singh: Right. Like right now, the most prestigious part of the market, [00:17:00] to your point, is, uh, the private credit market. Mm-hmm. Private equity venture cap.
[00:17:05] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:05] Sweta Singh: Uh, I mean, muni just charge boring and, and even fixed income in general, public investment, fixed income.
[00:17:16] Sweta Singh: Right. But this is people's sleep at night money.
[00:17:19] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:17:20] Sweta Singh: I, I think you clients appreciate that you are boring in this part of the market.
[00:17:26] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:17:27] Sweta Singh: You know, I, I also worked at an RA, uh, I worked at a firm in, but home for me was Boston. Boston. Right. Different yet, but right before that I worked at an RIA and that has given me this incredible appreciation for the end client and people.
[00:17:48] Sweta Singh: Mm-hmm. Because I'm not running amorphous pools of money where it's just performance oriented. I've talked to people who are managing, [00:18:00] you know, this is the money that they've put aside for their partner's long-term care for just that. Mm-hmm. Since chills. Um, you know, the parents want like, this is sleep at night money.
[00:18:13] Sweta Singh: Mm-hmm.
[00:18:14] Stacy Havener: They want
[00:18:15] Sweta Singh: boring, they want gy, they want someone who is, trust is such a big part of this, and trust has been one of the core principles for me in founding city. Different investments. So I think this is where also being at an issuer, being able to understand why does the issuer issue debt? What are their constraints?
[00:18:42] Sweta Singh: That is important. I think it's more than just the math part of the analysis. Exactly. It's asking questions that if I was just an investor not having sat in an issuer's seat, I would've missed that picture.
[00:18:55] Stacy Havener: I love that. I love both of those perspectives. The allocator perspective, which you [00:19:00] got when you went to the RIA, but also the issuer perspective and realizing that on the other side of these muni bonds, there are projects, real projects that have real functions in communities for real people.
[00:19:14] Stacy Havener: And we don't in our everyday lives, if we're not in the capital markets, we don't stop to think about how the hospital gets this done or how this bridge is functioning or all of these things that are critical components of our lives. You don't stop and think about where do they get the money for that.
[00:19:32] Sweta Singh: Yeah. And unlike the private markets in public market, you might even get your capital back.
[00:19:42] Stacy Havener: Amazing mic drop. Um, that is so good. Okay, so then let's get to the getting on the founder side. 'cause you worked for a couple founder led firms, which I love. And then you decided to take the leap. How did that come to be?
[00:19:57] Sweta Singh: Know, I, I would encourage young people to work [00:20:00] at firms where they do get, you know, front row seat to the founders because you can read hundred of books on entrepreneurship.
[00:20:08] Sweta Singh: You can get an MBA, but watching a through a process in real time
[00:20:16] Stacy Havener: mm-hmm.
[00:20:17] Sweta Singh: That is education and that is priceless. Yes. So, for me, with City Different happened about five years ago. At this point. I had worked at really large organizations, couple of small organizations. We wanted to set out to make the process of investing less performative and operate more from a place of trust.
[00:20:48] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:20:49] Sweta Singh: Uh, if I cannot tell an end investor. Am I doing with their money? It's my belief that I have no [00:21:00] business running their money, so. With regards to Citi different that there were two pieces that we really prioritized. One was accessibility to the portfolio manager, to the person that's really running your money.
[00:21:13] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:21:14] Sweta Singh: We take that really seriously. And the second piece was transparency. You know, when you call a big firm, 1-800-BIG-FIRM, uh, you speak to a client portfolio manager.
[00:21:29] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:21:29] Sweta Singh: Right? Uh, you speak to, and nothing, nothing against that. Right, right. Just a different way. Yeah.
[00:21:35] Stacy Havener: Yep.
[00:21:35] Sweta Singh: You have to scale. They're reading a script.
[00:21:38] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:21:39] Sweta Singh: They're reading a script given to them by the investment team.
[00:21:43] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:21:44] Sweta Singh: And this is what we wanna do different. We wanna provide accessibility to our portfolio manager who tells you what is it that they are doing, if you are interested. When we do our investor letters, not only do we talk about, hey, these are the [00:22:00] reasons why we made these choices, but we also show what is called in the industry performance attribution.
[00:22:06] Sweta Singh: As in these were the places where me and my fellow PMs made this call. This is what worked, this didn't work.
[00:22:14] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm. Accountability.
[00:22:16] Sweta Singh: Accountability.
[00:22:17] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:22:17] Sweta Singh: Accountability. And putting our faces to that. Yes. To doing it in public.
[00:22:23] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:22:23] Sweta Singh: Not behind a large banner, but, Hey, I'm Shweta, I run your money. These are the decisions I have made.
[00:22:32] Sweta Singh: This is what has worked. This is what hasn't worked. It a public forum.
[00:22:38] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:22:39] Sweta Singh: I think that is important. Trust is the crux on which this business is built.
[00:22:45] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm. And also requires a lot of bravery. I mean, entrepreneurship in and of itself requires a lot of bravery, but then to lead and invest and work with clients in the way you're describing also takes [00:23:00] courage because you can hide, as you said, I loved that phrase of hiding behind a logo or a banner.
[00:23:06] Stacy Havener: I mean, I don't love it, but I love it because that's what happens. It's very real comment. But the idea that you have to own your wins and you gotta own your mistakes. You have to own the things that didn't maybe work the way that you wanted them to, or that are still in the middle of a messy situation, and explain why you still believe in it or don't.
[00:23:29] Stacy Havener: And I think that is not for everyone.
[00:23:33] Sweta Singh: No,
[00:23:34] Stacy Havener: that is not for everyone.
[00:23:36] Sweta Singh: No.
[00:23:37] Stacy Havener: So how did you find, because you know, now, given that I have a little history with the firm, how did you find your co-founders and the other PMs that came together to build Citi difference?
[00:23:48] Sweta Singh: So we all worked together at, uh, previous shop also in Santa Fe, and I came back to Boston for me because it was home.
[00:23:58] Sweta Singh: Um, I started working [00:24:00] at an RIA and uh, my co-founder on the fixed income side, Chris Ryan was someone that I held in really highest team, Connor Brown. Uh, he was on the equity side. We really enjoyed working together and we had come together in early days of the prior shop. Uh, we loved this culture of alignment, uh, with investor values.
[00:24:31] Sweta Singh: Freedom and responsibility in the investment team. You, when people talk about culture and culture, so critical to
[00:24:42] Sweta Singh: P,
[00:24:50] Sweta Singh: it's a little more,
[00:24:51] Stacy Havener: I agree. Yeah.
[00:24:54] Sweta Singh: So for us, what brought us together was the culture piece. It was how [00:25:00] we communicated not just to the client, but also with each other. And we believe that when you give exceptional people the freedom to do what they do best,
[00:25:15] Stacy Havener: mm. It
[00:25:16] Sweta Singh: aligns with the client's interest, right?
[00:25:18] Sweta Singh: Because culture begins at home. It's not what you put on a mask. You go outside, you face the outside world and then say, even as parents, we, we both are parents, right? It's, it's not saying, Hey, I love to read. Meanwhile I watch tons of TV at home.
[00:25:35] Stacy Havener: Right?
[00:25:36] Sweta Singh: Right.
[00:25:36] Stacy Havener: Yes.
[00:25:37] Sweta Singh: It's if you love to read, your kids are watching you read.
[00:25:41] Stacy Havener: Yes.
[00:25:41] Sweta Singh: Similarly, culture begins at home. It begins with the people. You surround yourself and you work together. And it's cliche, the ping pong table and the, that's just, that is just cliche. So I think that is where magic happens when [00:26:00] you align your culture with the outcome that you are trying to give your end client.
[00:26:08] Stacy Havener: I love that. I love that the culture piece, it's getting, you know, it's getting more cred or more spotlight on both sides. Like you hear it now talked about inside of asset management companies, you also hear asset management companies talking about it in terms of the companies that they're researching, you know, to put into the portfolio and this whole idea of like, is there alpha associated with culture?
[00:26:37] Stacy Havener: And I love what you said there. So your name Citi Different, I wanna spend a few minutes on this because I think differentiators are, are really difficult to identify, especially when you are in it. Like when it's your company and you're in it, it can be challenging to identify your differentiators. But before we get to the [00:27:00] differentiators of the firm, I'd love to talk about the name because if people don't know they will now.
[00:27:09] Sweta Singh: Thank you for asking me this question because when I speak to people, they're like, city, what city? So city different is actually a tribute to the city of Santa Fe where almost all of the co-founders come from. We, we met in Santa Fe and it's also, you know, a cheeky deference to a place that is, you know, really magical out there, you know, in the mountains.
[00:27:40] Sweta Singh: Um, very different from what you see. Conventional Wall Street.
[00:27:45] Stacy Havener: Yes.
[00:27:46] Sweta Singh: It's our little way of paying homage to Santa Fe.
[00:27:51] Stacy Havener: Yeah, I love that. Okay, so now we know that city different is Santa Fe inspired, but it also, I think is, [00:28:00] is such a great reminder. On a daily basis, as you look at logos and, and you know you're doing your work, that, you know, one of my favorite sayings, which is different is better than better.
[00:28:13] Stacy Havener: And I think in the investment industry, kind of going back to the early part of your journey, the way that everyone is measured, it's, it's performative, it's performance based, it's numbers based. It's how many basis points better are you than the next person, than the next fund, than the next strategy. And that becomes the barometer by which we measure.
[00:28:34] Stacy Havener: My point of view is that, and people aren't really making decisions based on that to a couple basis points about performance isn't gonna tip the scale. What they're really looking for is different because a collection of different points of view, processes, portfolios, you know, that's where the beauty is, that's where the magic comes from.
[00:28:58] Stacy Havener: So when you think about. [00:29:00] Either your strategy or your firm. Your firm, you can take this however you'd like. What do you think about in terms of differentiators?
[00:29:09] Sweta Singh: You know, I think because we consciously, when the seed for the firm came together, the differentiation piece was really important because, you know, God knows you need a ZI one investment management firm.
[00:29:24] Sweta Singh: That's really the need of the hour. Uh, so what we've done is made a conscious decision to reject the thinking of this whole performative performance oriented, because we're in the investment world. There will be days where you outperform, there will be days when you underperform, that is just a given.
[00:29:50] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:29:50] Sweta Singh: But our sort of, our genesis is from this origination of be direct. Conversational with your clients, being able to [00:30:00] explain what you did. Uh, going back to fixed income muni, and we also do investment grade gov credit kind of mandate that essentially is your sleep at night money. That's essentially where you take risks in a very measured, conservative approach to allocation.
[00:30:20] Sweta Singh: I don't mind being called conservative or boring.
[00:30:23] Yeah.
[00:30:23] Sweta Singh: If I'm doing what I, I need to do for my end clients,
[00:30:30] Stacy Havener: I mean, there is a point of view that says boring is different and special if everybody else is trying to be the opposite of that. Right. And so when you have people reaching for yield or reaching for return or going out on the risk spectrum in an area of their asset allocation, where typically maybe they have not, the pendulum kind of swings really far one way.
[00:30:57] Stacy Havener: And then inevitably as is human [00:31:00] nature, it swings back because you realize like we overcorrected,
[00:31:04] Sweta Singh: yes
[00:31:05] Stacy Havener: we overcorrected, we, we were reaching and whoops, we don't love that. Right? So now we're coming back. So I like the idea and I think it's good for people to hear because often we'll have portfolio managers say, well, you know, but what I do just feels really boring.
[00:31:22] Stacy Havener: And sometimes that's because you're so close to it that you, you can't see the magic anymore 'cause it's just what you do and it's normal to you. But also the idea that. Different means to me. When you look at what your peers are doing, it's the things that they do or believe that you don't. And that is my, I don't like the word hack, but that's my hack to get at differentiators really quickly, is to really look at what is everybody else doing and when they zig, where are we zagging.
[00:31:53] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm. And that doesn't just mean in process or how the portfolio is structured, it also just means in what, how you think [00:32:00]
[00:32:00] Sweta Singh: Yes.
[00:32:00] Stacy Havener: What your philosophy is. Yes. As investors, as people, you know, one of the things I remember from working with you were the letters and just the tone and the authenticity and the friendship that you could actually feel, the sense of humor, the, the sort of comradery between people and which goes to culture.
[00:32:24] Stacy Havener: And I find, you know, how firms write their letters is a tell. Isn't it?
[00:32:32] Sweta Singh: Absolutely.
[00:32:33] Stacy Havener: I think it's a way, it's kind of like an interesting way to get at the culture without directly asking someone.
[00:32:41] Sweta Singh: And that is unusual for our industry. And it's intentional. Yes. In a polished marketing materials to the Gazo.
[00:32:51] Sweta Singh: Like you, you can get that. You can get that, you know the glossiness, but it's getting transparency. [00:33:00] Candor is so hard in our industry.
[00:33:02] Stacy Havener: Yes.
[00:33:03] Sweta Singh: And you know, back to the uniqueness piece, I think what we are trying to do is build a firm on radical transparency and it'll happen over time. You know, back to that boring.
[00:33:17] Sweta Singh: Consistency of doing that, of having the investors' voice in those letters, not just pushing a product on people. Because to that point of one, one, uh, it is building a relationship with RIAs.
[00:33:38] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:33:41] Sweta Singh: Talking.
[00:33:46] Sweta Singh: We're about, Hey, this happened in the market. That happened in the market. This is how we look at it. These are the decisions that we're making.
[00:33:55] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:33:55] Sweta Singh: Again, if you've worked with a manager long enough, you know [00:34:00] you'll outperform, you'll underperform. But basis points is not why people give you capital to manage, to give you, because they believe in your voice, in your integrity.
[00:34:13] Sweta Singh: And that for us, we'd like to believe that over time, this trust, this radical transparency, this accessibility to the person actually running their money is, will be valued. That's the bet we've made.
[00:34:28] Stacy Havener: So, and this is something that I often find, you know, and you've worked at big firms, so you know this, but when you are a boutique and you think about your journey over the five years, you, you kind of, as an entrepreneur, you sort of go through this phase of all, all the things we're not.
[00:34:43] Stacy Havener: Right, and you kind of beat yourself up on that. You're like, oh gosh. Like, oh, we don't have the, you know, the sales squad, we don't have the economists, we don't have the research budget we had when we were at, you know, big firm USA and you can kind of beat yourself up [00:35:00] because you don't have all the things that the bigs have.
[00:35:03] Stacy Havener: But my challenge to anyone listening to this who's like, yes, I'm doing that right now. Actually, I just paused doing that to listen to this podcast. My challenge to them is to say it's the things that we maybe feel slightly bad about sometimes, or that we kind of want to hide a little bit. Those are actually the things that are strengths.
[00:35:26] Stacy Havener: The fact that somebody can pick up the phone and call you on one hand could mean, well that's 'cause you don't have the client portfolio managers and you don't have the staff and you don't have all the things that the bigs have. But the reality is nobody can pick up the phone and call Larry Fink. Like there's no accessibility.
[00:35:45] Stacy Havener: There are layers and layers of that's not happening.
[00:35:48] Sweta Singh: Yes, yes.
[00:35:49] Stacy Havener: And so the bravery, again, is to say, yeah, exactly. We're not them. We have other strengths that if we're not careful, we can [00:36:00] put into the weakness column. And I hope you Oh, and I know you will, but like that accessibility that is so different and that matters.
[00:36:10] Stacy Havener: And I just really want other people to hear that because it is such a strength. It is such a strength. I love that. Now I'm gonna ask you, for you, because you know, this is International Women's Month. My daughter was actually born on International Women's Day, which is, I'm sure you know the universe's way of, of telling me something.
[00:36:35] Stacy Havener: Um, you know. How's that journey been around different, 'cause I know that there are many times when both of us have been in a room and we are the only one, and that can mean various things. The only woman, the only um, person from India, let's say, there are many ways that only one might show up. The only kid who went [00:37:00] to public, you know, school in a sea of Harvard grads.
[00:37:04] Stacy Havener: And I would love to just get your perspective on that journey because it's, on the one hand, it can be very challenging and on the other hand I find it's an incredible strength, but that takes time to get to, so I'd love to hear your perspectives on that.
[00:37:19] Sweta Singh: I think, you know, whether. It's, it's Citi different or personally, is truly, I believe what drives the professional.
[00:37:27] Sweta Singh: You cannot be two different people. It's a whole lot of, generally
[00:37:31] Stacy Havener: yes.
[00:37:32] Sweta Singh: Isn't it? You have to, yes. You have to lean into your authentic self and it doesn't come easy. You've been referring to the word bravery. So I was that person that, you know, hid in the room, tried to blend in, you know? Oh gosh. Like I better not stand out, standing up thing.
[00:37:55] Sweta Singh: So I think for a young person in your twenties, [00:38:00] it's incredibly hard. Yeah. Pressure, you know, having a teenage daughter, I can see that the pressure to fit in, it's a real thing, right? We, we all go through that in organizations as individuals, so. Unfortunately like that, that was my journey. That part didn't come in, but somewhere in that journey, again, that that word it clicked, clicked, gonna, and a public issuer, not a Wall Street firm clicked that I was different in, you know, the sea of people that.
[00:38:38] Sweta Singh: Sure. Not looking like you. That's an easy one. Right? Because that is so obvious. But also diversity in thought, in how I thought, in how I approached investment. It takes a little bit to figure out that that is what is unique and that is what makes you valuable. Yeah. Didn't really happen. Honestly. I'm in my forties.
[00:38:59] Sweta Singh: It [00:39:00] took that long for me. For to, for me, it's a
[00:39:03] Stacy Havener: journey. It's a journey and it's still happening. I think I still have massive imposter syndrome moments or things that I get stuck or hung up on. How did you, was there some, like when you think back on that, in that clicked phrase, which I like and I think it's true, was there a moment, was there something going on in your life or your professional life where you felt like it did click?
[00:39:28] Sweta Singh: You know, click I think is analogous to when athletes talk about flow being flow, right?
[00:39:34] Stacy Havener: Yes. Great one.
[00:39:35] Sweta Singh: Uh, for clubs like myself, I think I was hoping to, to click, but I'm gonna borrow this from my dad usually says in moments of, you know, big moments, moments that feel really big in life, I don't think life happens in one big moment.
[00:39:55] Sweta Singh: It's a series of small moments strung together. Ooh. Where [00:40:00] you develop to be who you are. Yes. There I entered rooms where I again, looks or, or color or that's, I can gravitate to that because that obviously, you know, that's who I'm different but. The beauty is that I did not realize, yeah. Was different.
[00:40:21] Sweta Singh: Again, that brazen
[00:40:23] Stacy Havener: Yes.
[00:40:23] Sweta Singh: Confidence that youth can give you.
[00:40:26] Stacy Havener: Yes.
[00:40:26] Sweta Singh: So in oblivious or as youngsters like to call it the fact that I was different and that I have to work twice as hard to be fed, even just once. But it didn't register. It didn't register. And it's a blessing in investment management or really, I would think in any industry in a way, if you don't.
[00:40:56] Sweta Singh: That ethic of grind and hard work and [00:41:00] oh no, you know, dammit, I have a point of view and I'll will fight till my point of view is hurt. It makes you a better investor. And I didn't do it consciously. You know, now hindsight is 2020, uh, it, it's making it sound more glorious than it actually was. Yeah. But it was just wanting to be hard, not knowing that I was different and thinking that, okay, I do need to work this hard.
[00:41:28] Sweta Singh: That is just the standard.
[00:41:30] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
[00:41:32] Sweta Singh: Um, that I think has helped me in good stead.
[00:41:36] Stacy Havener: Yes. And I, you know, it's interesting. I gave a talk yesterday to a, a large boutique, um, about 50 billion, and it was on the visibility effect, which is something I've really been unpacking on my own journey, and also just in helping.
[00:41:52] Stacy Havener: Asset managers and founders on theirs. And one of the pillars I have in it, so [00:42:00] it's own your story, which I think is a very internal thing and is also not very easy. It's simple, but it's not easy to do. Showing it your expertise and your value, which can feel very braggy. So then that enters a whole bunch of like, you don't wanna brag.
[00:42:16] Stacy Havener: We're all taught not to do that. So that's a whole thing. And then that last one, which is claiming it, which is really difficult.
[00:42:25] Sweta Singh: It's really difficult.
[00:42:26] Stacy Havener: And that's from, you know, I'm gonna say again, air quote, small things to very large things, but that's even sitting in a room with your colleagues. Having a point of view and being brave enough to say it.
[00:42:41] Stacy Havener: Being brave enough to take up the space, to ask the question, to challenge respectfully if you don't agree with what's being said, or you have an alternate point of view, and you know there's that brazen youth bit. Mm-hmm. But then there's like the middle where we sort of go, [00:43:00] whoa, I'm not sure I'm supposed to do that.
[00:43:02] Stacy Havener: I don't, what are the rules here? Am I following them? Am I not going to follow them? And so I would imagine that now being a co-founder, there's more freedom. Right. Because that's one of thinks like you built it to be a certain way for the people who work there. Yes. But on that journey, when you think about those things, the owning it, the showing it, the claiming it, how did you get the confidence back?
[00:43:27] Stacy Havener: Or maybe you never lost it, of being in those rooms, which I'm sure were a lot of people and saying, no, I have a point of view. Were you always able to maintain that?
[00:43:39] Sweta Singh: I've never really invested in prestige.
[00:43:42] Stacy Havener: I don't care.
[00:43:45] Sweta Singh: I care.
[00:43:47] Stacy Havener: Right. Yeah, that's true. Very
[00:43:48] Sweta Singh: much.
[00:43:48] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:43:49] Sweta Singh: Just the curiosity bit, you know, like you having you, um, summarize and repeat, uh, you know, some of the, the, [00:44:00] the foundations that you've articulated is so much better than, than I have.
[00:44:05] Sweta Singh: It kind of solidifies, you know, the nos that you say are so much more important, you know, um, getting comfortable with saying no to what is not right for you.
[00:44:18] Stacy Havener: Ooh,
[00:44:20] Sweta Singh: right. The clients that are not right for you. Oh, it's very hard. Extremely hard.
[00:44:32] Sweta Singh: However, from the wrong client makes room for the right one.
[00:44:38] Stacy Havener: Oh heck yeah. Yes. It makes room for the best. Yes.
[00:44:43] Sweta Singh: Similarly, because coming in from the investment world, right? You want that person to have a spine, you want the analyst, the portfolio manager that's putting ideas into your portfolio to have a point of view.
[00:44:57] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:44:58] Sweta Singh: It's funny, [00:45:00] I went to watch Hamilton with my teenager.
[00:45:03] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:45:03] Sweta Singh: And you know that moment in Hamilton when Burn Jefferson are fighting and Hamilton chooses Jefferson, his sworn enemy over Barr because he says I know what they stand for.
[00:45:19] Stacy Havener: Oh.
[00:45:20] Sweta Singh: So it's important to be public with what you stand for.
[00:45:24] Stacy Havener: Yes.
[00:45:26] Sweta Singh: I, I feel like I must have won some browning points with my teenager saying that, but, but it's so authentic and it resonates.
[00:45:33] Sweta Singh: You have to stand publicly for what you believe in. You can be right, you can be wrong, but you cannot be all things to all people, and especially not for yourself. You know, somewhere you have to take, take a stand. I, and I think for us, you know, it's investing in relationships. Even if you cannot monetize those relationship, it's okay.[00:46:00]
[00:46:00] Stacy Havener: That's
[00:46:00] Sweta Singh: right. It, it's okay. You know, it took me that fellowship working at smaller founder led firms because I prioritized my happiness. A attentive person that, you know, where it resonated with me. The passion piece was important.
[00:46:20] Stacy Havener: Yeah. I mean, we spent a lot of time at work. A lot of time, and so it better light us up in some way.
[00:46:30] Stacy Havener: And that's also a journey, right? Because it's not that you're just following, you know, you're not sitting here telling me you're a chef and that was your passion when you were young, but you're sitting here describing a communal table of people who are in the investment world, who are breaking bread, who are making relationships, who are prioritizing people over process and performance.
[00:46:56] Stacy Havener: Not to say that the other things aren't important. They are, but they [00:47:00] don't necessarily have to be the most important thing. You know, I think people do business with people and that's everywhere. And that's not just external, meaning the clients that we choose to say yes to or no to, or you know, how we interact with them.
[00:47:16] Stacy Havener: It's also internal. For the people that we do sit around that table with and that we build together. And I would love to, you know, okay, so you're five years in, let's just do like a little founder kind of talk here. You're five years in, is it everything you thought it would be and more? Is it rainbow and unicorns and totally gl
[00:47:39] Sweta Singh: There's so much beauty again, going, walking into rooms, not knowing what you're walking into.
[00:47:45] Stacy Havener: Yeah. It, but it's still, it's still awesome, but it's just, oh gosh, it's
[00:47:51] Sweta Singh: traded.
[00:47:52] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:47:52] Sweta Singh: Would it trade?
[00:47:53] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:47:53] Sweta Singh: Would it trade it?
[00:47:54] Stacy Havener: So how's it going? Where are you? Okay, so it's, it's you're five years. I can't believe that.[00:48:00]
[00:48:00] Stacy Havener: What, where are we at for a UM?
[00:48:02] Sweta Singh: Uh, we are at around 270 million asset under management. Great. I know every single one of my clients, uh,
[00:48:13] Stacy Havener: that's a great metric. That is a fantastic metric to track. Love that
[00:48:18] Sweta Singh: and, and we're not backing down on the bet that we've made towards a culture of transparency and accessibility.
[00:48:27] Sweta Singh: That is our story.
[00:48:28] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:48:29] Sweta Singh: It's the boutique story.
[00:48:31] Stacy Havener: Yeah. Uh,
[00:48:32] Sweta Singh: it's in that herd mentality. Mm-hmm. Having that authenticity, that voice that is really important. You know, in speaking to various founders at other firms that I have grown up and worked in, one feedback that I always get is, oh, I wish I had more patience.
[00:48:55] Sweta Singh: Of course, the grit, the determination, but patience and not [00:49:00] to.
[00:49:01] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:49:01] Sweta Singh: This, you can only do if it's personal and authentic and true to who you're, uh, entrepreneurship is not for everybody. It is. Definitely not the sure fast way to make money. It's a very slow, painful way to look at yourself in the mirror and show up every day with do the grind.
[00:49:27] Sweta Singh: So you, you should have some fun along,
[00:49:30] Stacy Havener: oh
[00:49:30] gosh,
[00:49:31] Sweta Singh: in this journey because that is what will light you up and that's why you'll show up. And I think that part is still there. Um, I enjoyed the markets, the investment part. At the same time. And, you know, no small measures do I en enjoy getting to know the advisors, getting to know, being able to partner with them and again, not push a product on them, but to customize.
[00:49:58] Sweta Singh: So we do this, you know, [00:50:00] if you remember, we package the investments in separately managed account vehicles. So these are super customized to the end clients.
[00:50:08] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:50:09] Sweta Singh: Uh, whether it's for tax consequences, whether you, you know, you mentioned this, Munis are the ultimate ESG or sustainability Yeah. Because they finance your kids public school, the, the hospitals bridges.
[00:50:23] Sweta Singh: Uh, for those of us here in Massachusetts, the mbt, much transit transit system, or in New York, the. You have believe in what you do. I think that's the only thing that will help you show up every day, because it definitely won't be the money because it'll be a long journey, you know, to be able to get to that other side.
[00:50:49] Sweta Singh: And, you know, it's, I, I would be hypocritical if I say it's not about the aum, but I think working with the right people, doing the right thing for, [00:51:00] for your clients, AUM will come.
[00:51:03] Stacy Havener: It does. And you know what, that was beautiful and also very real because it takes twice as long at least, and cost twice as much to build the thing that you set out to build.
[00:51:14] Stacy Havener: And that patience comment that, I mean, I was with some aspiring founders, you know, fund managers recently, and one of them said, well, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna spin out of where I am. Big, big. You know, I'm, I've got about like six months I'll give it as a founder. And I, I didn't wanna laugh, but I was like, okay, so we might, um, let's have a combo about that because that's not really a lot of time at all.
[00:51:49] Stacy Havener: And please don't say that to any allocators because they will also be feeling the way I'm feeling, which is, oh boy. Um, so I think the patient's comment is [00:52:00] really important for people to think about. Like, take whatever your expectations are and at least double them. And then take whatever you think it's gonna cost and double that and then take the a UM you think you're gonna have and half that.
[00:52:15] Sweta Singh: Yes.
[00:52:16] Stacy Havener: Now we're talking. Does that sound fun? Because that's
[00:52:20] Sweta Singh: what's gets
[00:52:21] Stacy Havener: Yeah, that's right. And yet. For all of us who are in it. It's like, we can't imagine going back.
[00:52:29] Sweta Singh: No.
[00:52:29] Stacy Havener: I don't know. Maybe we're a glutton for punishment, but it's nice. And also, you know what it's, it's when you talk with founder led RIAs, you are talking with people who are cut from the same cloth.
[00:52:43] Sweta Singh: Yes.
[00:52:44] Stacy Havener: And again, because people do business with people, the stories of how they started in the industry and how they built their practice, even though it's in two very different parts of the industry, the founder led journey [00:53:00] is going to have so much similarities. And at the end of the day, to your earlier comment, there are thousands of people who do what we do.
[00:53:07] Stacy Havener: Both of us. All of us, right?
[00:53:09] Sweta Singh: Yes. Yes.
[00:53:10] Stacy Havener: So the real thing is picking. The guide, if you will, that's the right one for you.
[00:53:17] Sweta Singh: Mm-hmm.
[00:53:17] Stacy Havener: And it's not gonna be because of a couple basis points, it's gonna be because of who we are as people and how we think and what we do differently and how that aligns or doesn't with the people that we're talking to as prospects.
[00:53:33] Stacy Havener: So I am just a huge fan. And I mean, any advice that you're gonna, so like, let's take our six month, I got a six month runway friend or anyone who's thinking about doing this. Like, I think there's a little bit of a knock on boutiques right now in the, in the sense of it's too difficult. Don't, don't try, there's a real gray cloud [00:54:00] over people who want to try to do it on their own.
[00:54:05] Sweta Singh: I think it goes back to the conversation that we are, we were having. Find your city different as in find what genuinely makes you different. Mm
[00:54:18] Stacy Havener: mm And
[00:54:19] Sweta Singh: you have a burning desire to do that. Um, it's, it's funny you said with RIAs and people who are cut out from that cloth, I don't think I wanna do anything other than what I'm doing right now.
[00:54:36] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:54:37] Sweta Singh: I'm genuinely happy, fired up doing what I'm currently doing. It's not, yeah. I'd say focus, focus on your differentiation. Don't let differentiation be the last thing you figure out with that.
[00:54:59] Stacy Havener: [00:55:00] Yes. That's not a nice to have.
[00:55:04] Sweta Singh: Is an essential to have.
[00:55:05] Stacy Havener: It's an essential, it's not a nice to have. And that's the same way I feel about story.
[00:55:11] Stacy Havener: It's like, don't put narrative and differentiation or even marketing. Don't put all of that last. If you think you're just gonna sit down at your Bloomberg and you know Jim Carrey type quickly on the keyboard as you make all these great investments and money's gonna fall from the sky because all these investors are gonna find you.
[00:55:31] Stacy Havener: Like, it's not gonna, that's not how it works.
[00:55:34] Sweta Singh: No. Yeah. We're in an industry of really smart people having access to more or less the same tools. Uh, sure we all bring our unique perspective, but there are a lot of credible, smart, intelligent people doing, like you mentioned, the same thing we are doing.
[00:55:53] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:55:53] Stacy Havener: So
[00:55:54] Sweta Singh: you are different. You have to lead with your differentiation.
[00:55:57] Stacy Havener: Find your city different. I love [00:56:00] that. I feel like we need a whole marketing campaign. Tell Connor, get the Birkenstocks and the black socks. We're doing a, you know, you know, we're doing a campaign. Um, that is so great. May I ask you some questions to end that are, I mean, you've been so candid and so lovely.
[00:56:17] Stacy Havener: I've, I've really enjoyed this conversation. I have some questions about, um, they're just kind of fun. I dunno. Let's see, where are they? Here? They're okay. The first one was meant to be easy, but I feel like if you're a reader, which hello bookcases, um, this cannot, this can sometimes not be an easy question.
[00:56:38] Stacy Havener: So what's a book that inspires you? This,
[00:56:42] Sweta Singh: this is not, not
[00:56:43] Stacy Havener: easy question, not an easy question. Easy. I know I'm with you. I agree.
[00:56:47] Sweta Singh: Um. I love content of all kind, and I think the only reason I was a reader is because this was before the age of content.
[00:56:59] Stacy Havener: [00:57:00] Yeah.
[00:57:01] Sweta Singh: I think with regards to investment and investment audience, my favorite book book is Intelligent Investor by Benjamin Graham, but there is a pairing year.
[00:57:14] Sweta Singh: I think you pair that book with thinking fast and slow. Oh.
[00:57:22] Sweta Singh: And the reason I say this is, you know, one book teaches you how to invest, how to think about money, right? That's sort of, uh, the bible for, for investors, right? And but the other one teaches you why humans, including you as an investor are prone to doing the wrong thing with it. And I think together they're whole education.
[00:57:46] Stacy Havener: Oh, that's so good. Have you read The Undoing Project?
[00:57:50] Sweta Singh: No,
[00:57:51] Stacy Havener: not yet. I'm sending, I'm sending it to you. I'm gonna send you this. Michael Lewis the Undoing Project. The reason I love this book, it's about Daniel Kahneman [00:58:00] and Amos Tversky. It's like their story as people and it's so great. You will love it. Okay, so I'm not letting you off the hook though, because those were the investment books.
[00:58:10] Stacy Havener: I bet behind you on those shelves. There's some non-vet books that are inspirational.
[00:58:19] Sweta Singh: There's so many Stacy.
[00:58:20] Stacy Havener: I know. So many know what's one. How about this, I'm gonna ask the question differently. What's one you've read recently that was inspiring?
[00:58:27] Sweta Singh: Um, it's this Japanese writer, Murakami.
[00:58:32] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[00:58:33] Sweta Singh: Uh, south of the Sun West.
[00:58:36] Sweta Singh: I'm gonna butcher the name. Yeah.
[00:58:37] Stacy Havener: It's
[00:58:38] Sweta Singh: a story. Uh, he's such a good writer. You know what I like about, uh, reeling a book, one investment book. It's, um, in the world that we live in, it's so fast paced content flying at you left, right, and center. I like the ity. When it slows you down, down, it slows your mind and your [00:59:00] monkey line down and the lyrical nature.
[00:59:03] Sweta Singh: You, you sort of, it's like that food. It's like eating your most delicious favorite food. That's what a book is.
[00:59:12] Stacy Havener: Yeah.
[00:59:13] Sweta Singh: And it leaves that after. Iwell it with your tongue.
[00:59:19] Stacy Havener: It's that slowness.
[00:59:20] Sweta Singh: Enjoy that book. But
[00:59:22] Stacy Havener: yes,
[00:59:23] Sweta Singh: Murakami was the last book I read.
[00:59:25] Stacy Havener: Oh, I love that. Okay. Wonderful. Great job. Not easy to do for, for avid readers.
[00:59:30] Stacy Havener: Okay, we're going from books to places. What place inspires you? What's your happy place?
[00:59:37] Sweta Singh: I would have to say it's the, uh, there is something about the scale.
[00:59:46] Stacy Havener: Ah,
[00:59:46] Sweta Singh: you know, those mountains have been there for millions of years through every crisis humans have invented, and we're currently living in a crisis.
[00:59:56] Sweta Singh: Oh
[00:59:56] Stacy Havener: my goodness.
[00:59:57] Sweta Singh: That, that puts everything in per [01:00:00] perspective, you know, like, yeah. Yeah. So I, I really enjoy that. Amazing.
[01:00:06] Stacy Havener: There is something about scale. And at that level where it really puts you in perspective, but also expands your thinking because especially in a city like Boston, yes. You know, you have buildings and you're in, you know, two, you're on the, the tube, you're on the um, oh God.
[01:00:26] Stacy Havener: Now, now I'm in London.
[01:00:27] Sweta Singh: Also, also humans, you know, humans are are self delusion of our own importance.
[01:00:33] Stacy Havener: That's right. And everything up in our face all the time.
[01:00:37] Sweta Singh: Yes.
[01:00:38] Stacy Havener: Yeah. I love that. That's wonderful. Okay. Let's say that you're taking the stage to give a talk on finding your city different.
[01:00:48] Sweta Singh: Yeah.
[01:00:48] Stacy Havener: That's gonna be the talk you're in, you're backstage, you're micd up, you're about to walk out.
[01:00:54] Stacy Havener: What song do they play? What's your walkout anthem? So
[01:00:58] Sweta Singh: this is a little bit unusual.[01:01:00]
[01:01:03] Sweta Singh: It's a lose yourself.
[01:01:05] Stacy Havener: Oh, come on
[01:01:11] Sweta Singh: this
[01:01:16] Sweta Singh: cloud. And I think I, I love it. Right? It's about s seizing the moment. Yes. You've prepared your whole life for like, I've been in this industry 25 years. Investment management is what I do every day, every morning log. That is the only thing friendly I'm good at. Uh, and, but you still, you know, you, we still let fear take hold off.
[01:01:43] Sweta Singh: Of ourselves. And so I think it's not letting fear talk you outta doing, whether it's opening your boutique, your city different, making that big bet on yourself. It's so scary. Mm-hmm.
[01:01:57] Stacy Havener: It's
[01:01:58] Sweta Singh: so scary to make that bet on you. [01:02:00] So I like, I love that song.
[01:02:01] Stacy Havener: I mean, hi, so we know what we're listening to when we're together next, obviously.
[01:02:06] Stacy Havener: Okay. What profession, other than your own, would you like to attempt?
[01:02:11] Sweta Singh: Hmm. I think it'd be investigative journalism.
[01:02:16] Stacy Havener: Ooh, curiosity. Curiosity. Yes. I was waiting for chef. I had my money on Chef.
[01:02:25] Sweta Singh: I love to eat.
[01:02:27] Stacy Havener: I said eat, not cook. Yeah. Okay. What profession would you not like to do?
[01:02:34] Sweta Singh: I think any profession where there is no feedback loop, or that feedback loop is invisible.
[01:02:42] Sweta Singh: I know what I'm doing is working and fixed income and the public market do that for me. Good days. And then there are days that they just come out and slap you right on the face. I, that feedback, [01:03:00]
[01:03:02] Stacy Havener: I get that it's be, it's like it's better to get the negative feedback than no feedback.
[01:03:07] Sweta Singh: Oh gosh.
[01:03:08] Stacy Havener: Yeah. Yeah. I get that.
[01:03:10] Stacy Havener: Okay. And last but not least, and this is certainly a long time from now, what do you want people to say about you after you've retired or left the industry?
[01:03:20] Sweta Singh: Uh, that she made fixed income. Feel personal. Um, that, you know, that client trusted her, not because she had the right credential or the right pedigree, but because she was always honest with them.
[01:03:42] Sweta Singh: Her mistakes out and showed up as herself every, every day. And, and the last part is not said in you, but in humility. And I hope, you know, this happens where I can make it a little [01:04:00] bit easier for the next woman, uh, comes after me.
[01:04:04] Stacy Havener: Mm-hmm.
[01:04:05] Sweta Singh: To take space in a room, uh, that is aspirational. I would like to get to there to make a difference for someone else one
[01:04:16] Stacy Havener: day.
[01:04:16] Stacy Havener: Yeah. I, I love both of those. And if you're a journaler. I would love a great prompt is to take that, make fixed income personal and write about what that means to you, because that is a really wonderful statement. I don't think I've heard that before and I would think it would be really cool to see what came out of that journal exercise.
[01:04:41] Stacy Havener: And on the last one about the cl about, you know, paving the way or making it easier for the next woman up. You know, the really interesting thing that I've found with that visibility effect, you know, the own it, show it and claim it and how difficult that claiming it, well, they're all difficult, but, but just that journey [01:05:00] is this really amazing feedback loop that happens when we share our story.
[01:05:08] Stacy Havener: Just when we share our story, when we talk about what our journey was like, the hard parts, the messy parts, the great parts with authenticity in all of its Brene Brown definition, the notes and feedback and conversations and phone calls I get from people who are just responding to me, sharing my story that give gain flywheel.
[01:05:38] Stacy Havener: It blows my mind. It was something I just did not envision being a result or an impact of sharing my story. But I can tell you that things like this that you're doing right now, you are absolutely. Paving the way for the next woman, and I am [01:06:00] really, really honored to call you a friend and to have you on the show today.
[01:06:04] Stacy Havener: Thank you so much for being here. My fellow founder, my fellow female in finance, my fellow Eminem fan. Hello. Um, if people wanna follow Alonga, what's the best way for them to do that
[01:06:17] Sweta Singh: so they can reach out directly to me? I'm sch, SWET at citi different investments com, our website, citi different investments com.
[01:06:29] Sweta Singh: Um, that'll be a great place to find us. And Stacy, the honors of mine, it's so great to reconnect with you after a long time now.
[01:06:38] Stacy Havener: Yes. Thank you so much, Reta. Let's be real. No one wakes up and says, I can't wait to build some operational infrastructure today you are here to manage money to build something that lights you up, not chase down reports across five systems and 15 service providers.
[01:06:57] Stacy Havener: That's where Ultimas Fund [01:07:00] Solutions comes in there. Your ops dream team, consolidating all your middle and back office chaos into one clean, scalable setup, registered funds, private funds, SMAs, all integrated. One team, one tech platform, one rock solid source of data. But here's the real differentiator service.
[01:07:24] Stacy Havener: I know that Fund in a Box sounds convenient. It's also a box. Know what? You can't put in a box? A human who picks up the phone when you call and need help. Real life people who know your name and your fund, and they care about getting it right. Ultimas was built on people doing business with people. You get institutional strength combined with boutique level service without getting stuck in a phone tree of doom.
[01:07:52] Stacy Havener: If you're ready to simplify scale and start working with a team that feels like an extension of yours, check out [01:08:00] billion dollar backstory.com/ultimas. That's U-L-T-I-M-U-S. You've got the investment strategy, the vision, the track record. Now it's time to upgrade the engine behind it all with ultimas.
[01:08:18] Stacy Havener: This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions. The information is not an offer, solicitation, or recommendation of any of the funds, services, or products, or to adopt any investment strategy. Investment values may fluctuate and past performance is not a guide to future performance.
[01:08:37] Stacy Havener: All opinions expressed by guests on the show are solely their own opinion and do not necessarily reflect those at their firm. Manager's appearance on the show does not constitute an endorsement by Stacey Haven or Haven or Capital Partners.
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